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angle movement erratic?

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by goin broke09, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    Hi,
    Just mounted and was trying out my unimount 7 1/2' western and the angle R to L operation is erratic. Up and down is fine and I've checked the fluid and exercised it but it still is erratic.. Seems like it wants to go too fast and then bind up.. If I push the control L to R button with short quick commands it will work but???
    It has the handheld control..
    Any help would me much appreciated!
    robbie
     
  2. noble@esitrucks

    noble@esitrucks Member
    from 20181
    Messages: 92

    I would have you look at page 21 on the mech. guide at western

    http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/21936_120198.pdf

    unless the controller is not putting out a constant 12V or greater I would pay attention to the poppet check valve. You can use page 52 to check the poppet valve. If you were wondering about the controller you can check out page 44. Check out a few of those things then everyone here will help you to narrow it done and get you fixed. Good luck.
     
  3. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    thanks for the quick reply with the link!

    I'll let you know what I find.
     
  4. #1 plowtech

    #1 plowtech Senior Member
    Messages: 253

    Do you have another controller to plug in?

    Can you explain more ERRATIC?

    When you checked fluid was the plow all the way down?

    When you hold right button down does it always move to the right?
    (what im looking for is while holding to the right does it ever bounce back to the left then back to the right)

    Same question but when you hold the button to the Left? PT.:)
     
  5. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    Well I did the bench testing of the handheld control unit and it passed all the checks.

    checked the poppet valves, springs, o-rings, all looks well there.
    but ? does this body housing have it's own separate from main pump, fluid supply?

    I have checked main pump body fluid level a few times in the past 16hrs. and definitely had ram cyl. all the way down. fluid level good, although I did add some in the begining, then cycled numerous times then checked fluid again with the ram all the way down. seems ok

    by erratic, when I push &hold R or L button, it will start rapidly then stop suddenly, and pumps sounds like when you push and hold up button after blade/ram is already maxed up position.
    Up and Down seems to work nice and smooth.

    I didn't notice any reverse of direction when operating L or R, but I will go test again to make sure.

    but. if I push L or R with short & quick pushes, blade will cycle all the way Right or Left
     
  6. #1 plowtech

    #1 plowtech Senior Member
    Messages: 253

    I would recommend:

    remove coil cover w/ 2 screws (on the back of the pump were your wires feed into)

    remove the coil and valve with the green wire- that would be whats called the 3-way valve

    after removal inspect o-rings etc., but pay close attention to the movement of the inner spool. There are differnt versions of this valve.

    If the valve has an extended tip on it,push that in and it should move freely and extend back out (spring loaded) it will only shift about 1/16th in laymens terms.

    If you dont have an extended tip, use a phillips screwdriver to insert in the end and push it to see if it moves freely.

    thru the tiny holes in the valve you can watch the action of the valve work.

    see how that works. PT
     
  7. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    Plow Tech,
    Well, I did as you instructed, o-rings and everything looked nice and clean, movement was free and smooth, wiring all looked good, checked resistance on all 3 coils, the 3 way was 7.1 while the other two were 7.0.
    Still the same problem..????

    Anyone have any idea what could be my problem??
     
  8. noble@esitrucks

    noble@esitrucks Member
    from 20181
    Messages: 92

    Ohms or volts?
    Plus you said you filled it up firstj can you go step by step on how you did that. This could be very important. Thanks.
     
  9. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Have you checked the couplers and mechanical travel?
     
  10. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    ohms

    before I added any fluid, I discovered this problem. I cycled side to side at least a few times and up& down a few times before doing any fluid checks. I had bought this plow only about 2 months ago and seen it work, altho I can't really say for sure how smoth the movements were.
    So after trying this plow on MY truck and cycling it all ways , full travel, but very jerky like, especially side to side, I checked the fluid level and it was low and I added, and still had the same problem. but I discovered,after reading manual that when I initially checked the level the first time, I did not have the ram completely down. Then I pushed the ram down all the way, by my own body weight(170)removed both plugs and let a couple oz fluid out to the proper level.

    after each time of adjusting the fluid level, I exercised the side to side, to the stops both R& L at least a 2 or 3 times BEFORE raising the blade and dropping blade a few times.
    So here I am with a very jerky plow but it does work.
    I really would like it to work smoother like I know it should
     
  11. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    well what should I look for at the couplers?

    the travel up & down, left to right seems fine?
     
  12. noble@esitrucks

    noble@esitrucks Member
    from 20181
    Messages: 92

    There shouldn't be any couplers but your right if they are present they could be the problem. Again you are right about mechanical part also that could easily be a problem. It could be to loose and worn and is binding and unbinding itself. Good job basher I easily over look those problems all the time.
     
  13. noble@esitrucks

    noble@esitrucks Member
    from 20181
    Messages: 92

    If you have couplers connect them together and try going left to right. Obviously the plow won't move you'll get a chance to see if the pump pulses or makes that dead head sound. Visually you can check for blown o-rings and make sure the valve moves back and forth. Be careful for any hydraulic force. Don't look at it as you pusj on it.
     
  14. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    First off, Thanks for all your efforts& help so far!



    No quick couplers on this units hydraulic lines.

    Condition is basically low use and little visible wear, but as far as the travel, it seems to travel ok if I use very short&quick multiple taps on the left or right button, but if I just push it and like hold, it will stop suddenly and the pumps sounds like when it reaches top and can't go any higher. Then I release button and push again and it moves somemore.
    To check mechanical travel best, do I dis-connect the L & R rams at the blade and manually move blade R & L feeling for smooth travel?
    Should I then run the rams while dis-connected from the blade?

    Could the problem possibly be when angling R, the ram opposite the pushing ram can't take it cuz it's fluid doesn't release ??? a valve that ain't working right ,but causing blockage??
     
  15. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    How old is your wiring? do you have bad grill plugs, possibly making minimal contact?


    I would try disconnecting the angle hoses and see if the unit (with rams attached) moves freely by hand. Remember fluid is going to come out of the rams when you do this so be prepared.
     
  16. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Does sound electrical.

    1) Take a 10 amp 12V fused jumper wire and temporarily connect it directly to the power terminal on the S2 coil (the one with the light green wire). Be sure to first disconnect the original wire.

    2) Hop in the truck and attempt to angle in both directions with the controller. Does it now work consistently and smoothly? If so then it's a connection issue somewhere on the light green wire. Likely in or near the grill plug would be my educated assumption. ;)
     
  17. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    Thanks again for the tips!
    First I'll look again closely at the electrical connections then do the direct 12v(fused) to where the green wire goes on the coil.
    So far though, all wiring and connectors has looked in very good shape.

    But 1st I have to try and remove some very rusty "fine" thread bolts from rear tow plates on the rear of a Nissan Pathfinder so maybe then I can mount a tow hitch assembly, so my customer can tow her ATV & trailer! 8 North Western PA winters adds up to a whole lot of salt corrosion!! I can't help but think of how much quicker & easier this task would be, if this vehicle had spent the last 8 winters in ARIZONA !! Or me! I wouldn't be having a SNOW PLOW problem either! And to think that I actually lived in Tucson for 3 yrs. (1977-79) and then moved back to NW PA. I do enjoy some of it, but definitely not the SALT !!
    later..............
     
  18. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    results of the Pathfinder trailer hitch, done.

    results of the direct 12volt power to the terminal where the light green wire went.

    push L button, blade went nice and smooth to the left
    push R button, blade jerks a bit and pumps sounds like it has maxed out
    push Down button, nothing
    push Up, blade jerks, but if I do short , quick pushes on button, blade goes Right??

    Sounds kind of like that handheld control, but I did the bench test according to Western's procedure, and it seemed ok
    Connections at grille look ok and well lubed.
    How much are those controls? I know a guy who has one, just maybe he will let me try his, but maybe he won't?
    Just maybe, someone reading this can make MORE sense out of my test results than I.
     
  19. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Ignore the raise and lower functions while the jumper is connected as it affects valve operation for those two functions while connected.

    Being that it' still jerky and straining against the pump during angle right even with the jumper connected then it isn't a wiring or controller issue, it's a hydraulic issue on the pump unit. Possibly a weak S2 coil or the ground to it. Second choice would be a defective/contaminated poppet valve in the valve block.
     
  20. goin broke09

    goin broke09 Junior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 23

    Sorry, but I got those test results reversed.

    blade moved nice and smooth to the RIGHT, then stop&jerky going LEFT

    Does this change your thoughts on my problem??

    Sure do appreciate your input B&B