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Angle Left stopping hesitation

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by p0nt00ns, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. p0nt00ns

    p0nt00ns Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    Hi everyone, here is my dilema that I am hoping to get some help with. 8.0ft 5 year old Ultra Western. Hooked it up and all works well but when I angle left with plow in raised condition as it starts to come to a rest before it would hit end of travel hit hessitates (click click click), kinda like the sound of a chain skipping a gear. The plow goes left and right at equal and normal speeds. it seems like it is trying to lock in and then finaly does, click click Click! It does not do this when angling Right. It is every time repeatable. I think if i would put force against the angle left of the plow it would click click click click and maybe not lock in at all or (hold the angle) but have not given that a try yet.

    No air in the lines and fluid topped off. I would like to tackle the fix tomorrow if someone out there would be so kind as to point me in the right (in this case "Left") direction.

    I do have and read through the Mechanics Manual but nothing that really points to this as I read it. My best guess right now at looking at flow diagrams is cross over relief valve or poppet check valve.

    Please help!

    Thanks so much
     
  2. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    you might try a different hand controller
    Mine did that and dealer replace left side valve and next snow still did it
    The dealer said cant be the controller
    I had a buddy had same plow plug mine in his plow and it would do same thing on his
    Not saying this ur problem but never hurts to rule things out before spending money on something that you dont need I still have the factory valve
    My plow2004 model ultra this happen in2009 if I remeber right
     
  3. p0nt00ns

    p0nt00ns Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    Thanks so much Antlerart06, I do have a spare controller so that is an easy check to do. I suppose it is possible if the touch pad contacts are starting to short out in some weird configuration that may cause this condition. I will try as my first step in the morning. Sure do appreciate the reply! If anything else comes to anyone's mind please let me know, Take Care and Think Snow!

    Bob
     
  4. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,503

    I had a similar problem years ago, ended up as a bad wire in the handheld. I seem to remember a light blue wire as the problem.
     
  5. PPS. inc

    PPS. inc Member
    from Earth
    Messages: 55

    I pulled mine out today and it was still doing this. It's like it studder stops. Not smooth. I was thinking it was the controller. Can I open this controller and look around or just order a new one.? Can it be repaired?
     
  6. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,503

    It's a couple of screws, no big deal to open
     
  7. PPS. inc

    PPS. inc Member
    from Earth
    Messages: 55

    So how would we fix this light blue wire. Controllers are very $$$$. Your knowledge would be very helpful.
     
  8. PPS. inc

    PPS. inc Member
    from Earth
    Messages: 55

    My issue is not controller. Tried a proven controller and did same thing. Came home and was standing at the bonfire and thought I would go look at it again.ntheres a grey threaded knob on the lift ram side of the of reserve. Opened it a little bit and a bunch of air escaped. I bet that's my issue. Tom. Morning I will hook truck back up and cycle it. The controller is fine.
     
  9. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    The air pressure in your reservoir is normal. If its a uni then the reservoir is solid and sealed completly so depending on temperatures and position of rams etc there will be more or less pressure. If lift ram is extended pressure will be low because fluid level drops.
    Later model flow stat units have gray plastic filler caps with 5lb pressure valves in them to allow the reservoir to vent but only if the pressure inside exceeds 5 lbs. This way air does not vent in and out every time the fluid level goes up and down. Breathing in and out allows moisture to come in and then the fluid absorbs it and in the end the moisture freezes pluging up the sump screen.

    Is this clicking sound coming from the motor relay or the hydraulic unit?

    Ok, reading back I see it's an ultra so you have the flow-stat and the grey filler plug. Pressure is NOT your problem. You need to narrow this down between mechanical and electrical. If the power relay is clicking then obviously it is electrical. If you are sure the controller you used to test is good then look over the control harness very carefully. Look for pinched / cut wires or bad insulation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  10. MarkEagleUSA

    MarkEagleUSA Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    If you tried another controller with the same results it sounds to me like a sticking valve in conjunction with the handheld's "soft stop" feature.
     
  11. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    The soft stop could be involved, that is a great hypothisis. But did they have that feature 5 years ago? He says the plow is that old. I know you can shut the soft stop off on the new Fleet Flex systems but I am not sure they even had soft stop on that generation of plow? Perhaps they did and you just had no option to shut it off.
     
  12. MarkEagleUSA

    MarkEagleUSA Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    Soft stop is a function of the handheld controller, not the plow.
     
  13. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    That being said did the controller of that time have it? I mean before fleet flex and multiplex. The plow is five years old so it must be the old three wire system, not multiplex. I don't recall ever hearing about soft stop until they came out with the four wire multiplex controller.

    I am still waiting to hear where the clicking is coming from, is it from the power relay or the valve body?
     
  14. nealybird

    nealybird Senior Member
    Messages: 714

    yea the handheld straight plow control had soft stop from day one, back in the unimount days.
     
  15. MarkEagleUSA

    MarkEagleUSA Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    That's what I've heard as well.

    When angling and you release the button, the pump motor shuts off but the valve is held open for .5 (?) second to allow the plow to glide to a stop. Compare that to the joystick contol where the plow comes to an abrupt stop when the stick is released. It's a feature I'd love to have in both controls (I actually prefer the joystick but use the handheld beause of soft-stop) and it would be nice if it were user-selectable.

    Having an idea of where the "clicking" is coming from might help narrow it down. I get "clicking" noises when the blade is fully raised and starts to bind against the stacking stop.

    Does this "clicking" only happen with the plow fully raised, or at anytime the blade is off the ground? Have you lubed the pivot point and anywhere there's moving metal on metal (quadrant to A-frame, etc)?
     
  16. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    "I get "clicking" noises when the blade is fully raised and starts to bind against the stacking stop. " Last entry...

    "when I angle left with plow in raised condition as it starts to come to a rest before it would hit end of travel hit hessitates (click click click)" First entry....

    Now I am confused, is it when you are going up or when you angle left or both? This is important.

    If I were working on this I would put a test light on the output terminal of the motor relay and see if the clicking corresponds with a blinking test light. That would indicate that, for some reason the relay is clicking back on after you have released the control button. If it doesn't then I would look at the valves. Again it would be nice to have a test light on the valves that direct the fluid to the direction that produces the clicking, either left angle or up, depending on which it is. If the light flashes with the clicking then you know that it is electrical but if not it is mechanical. It would be nice too to know that the main blade pivot bolt (at the end of the a-frame) and the two pivot pins at the base of the a-frame are not seized and sticking. Just a shot in the dark....
     
  17. PPS. inc

    PPS. inc Member
    from Earth
    Messages: 55

    Well I tried a 3 rd controller. Still does it. Checked filters, both good. Switched a new relay and it still does it just not as often. Then I sanded the ground on the motor, doesn't a little less. I then took at look at coils over the valves, the clicking i am hearing is at the left angle coil. Tom morning I will take whole plow to a dealer and have them look at real quick and hopefully tell me it's the coil. The ground wire runs from relay to coils and up to motor. The left angle coil is 1 st inline with the ground wire. Could this be the problem.???? Ay help would be great but I am think the coil is going bad as it was not doing it as often when cleaning up grounds.
     
  18. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    This doesn't sound like a coil fault to me. Coil fault would mean the vave fails to come on intermitantly but yours come on when asked but also comes on even after the button is released.

    Looking at the schematic for the regular (non-multiplex) straight blade flow-stat I see that the coils are all powered with a common positive wire. To activate them the other side is connected to ground by the controller. I am thinking that the control wire for this vavle is pinched somewhere or worn through and intermitantly touching ground between the coil and the controller. The vibration of the motor is probably moving the wire enough to make contact with ground. Look close at the wires under the coil cover, follow them to the plug and then look as much as you can on the control harness as it goes into the truck, through the engine compartment and finally into the cabin through the firewall. If the key is on and the controller is also on you should be able to shake the wires and if it is quiet enough you might hear the valve clicking as you shake the wires. If you can make it click by moving the wires you should be able to narrow it down. One last thing to try before comitting to paying for a visit to the dealer.
     
  19. MarkEagleUSA

    MarkEagleUSA Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    I realize you're a trained Western tech but are you sure about this? That's not how my UltraMount is wired (2-plug relay system). The coils are driven by a positive wire direct from the controller. The common wire (BLK/ORN) goes to the (-) terminal on the motor, and also goes back to the motor relay under the hood.
     
  20. MarkEagleUSA

    MarkEagleUSA Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    You can try swapping the coil that's clicking (be sure to swap the control wires as well) with one of the others to see if the problem follows the coil or stays with the wire.