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an E-60 head scratcher.

Discussion in 'Meyer / Diamond Products Discussion' started by tjctransport, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    fresh rebuilt pump, with fresh smurf pee in it. 2 new angle cylinders, filled up before installing on plow. new lines, filled after putting on cylinders. new quick connects.
    everything works like it should.
    or appears to.

    after cycling the angle left/right 5-6 times, the pistons are half full of air.
    you can physically move the plow 1/2 angle by hand.

    bleed everything, and it is tight as a clams rear end.
    cycle 5-6 times and they are half full of air again.

    any ideas on what i am missing here? i have never run into this before.
  2. Fourtrax250R

    Fourtrax250R Senior Member
    Messages: 109

    so it angles fine for 5 or 6 cycles, and then all of a sudden you get air in the PA rams again?? are you able to push the moldboard by hand back and forth when it happens?
  3. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    Humm. I have 4 of those And never ever have I bled anything. Always just topped off the reservoir a couple times. Cycle again. Repeat.
  4. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    when they are full, the blade is solid and can not be moved by hand.
    the more you cycle it the more air gets into the pistons.
    first time it is instant move. by the fifth time it will take 3-4 seconds for the blade to move.
    after cycling left/right about 5 times, i can move the blade 1/2 compression of the cylinders by hand. this is telling me they are about 1/2 full of air.

    and the cylinders are pressurized to the point when you remove the line from the cylinder, it will shoot oil 4-5 foot in the air.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  5. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    same here. in 40 years of meyers plow ownership, i have never seen this.
    but i always used E-47's i have only had these E-60's for 3 years.
    fill the cylinders and hoses, put them on and top off the pump.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  6. JDLipinski

    JDLipinski Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Mine had some air issues when I put it together. Get the cylinders pointing down (steep downhill or lower it while front of truck is on a curb). Cycle them left and right a few times, the air will come out easily.
  7. racer47

    racer47 Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    :mechanic start over.. take couplers off, move plow back and fourth with hoses in something to catch oil.. now with plow in full angel... take hose on angel cylinder that is collapsed put hose in oil can. move slowly back to outher side. this will fill 1 cylender.. now install couplers.. connect to pump fill up pump work back and forth check fluid.. up down back forth add fluid ready to go .. you cant put oil in both cylinders at same time or it will air lock... ussmileyflag:drinkup:
  8. timetraveler

    timetraveler Junior Member
    from 45133
    Messages: 23

    hey guys, i can tell ya the racer47 knows a bit about these meyer's I seen the guy rebuild my pump with a patch on one eye, and the other one closed. Knaw seriously, he's pretty darn knowlegable about these plow pumps. If you have to have work done he's real reasonable. So if your around the Chilicothe area in ohio and your having problemns, ask him for his number.

    he rebuilt my pump, and gave me a electric motor basically for my spreader
  9. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    that is sort of how i did it.
    with cylinders off plow, i fill them up to the half way point, put hoses on, and fill the hoses. then put the connectors on. then put them on the plow. make sure pump is full, and it works. except for this pump. within 5 left right cycles, the pistons are half full of air.

    i have done it 4 times now, and withing 5 full lock side to side cycles every time they are half full of air.

    i really would rather use the E-60 over the E-47 because this truck either mounts a C-8.5 or a C-9
  10. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    You're wasting time manually bleeding the system. Usually left/right cycles will bleed it for you.

    If air is getting into your cylinders, it means that there obviously must be somewhere that its being added. The place to look is the supply side of the actual gear pump. Maybe a bad o-ring between the fluid reservoir and the pump intake. Could be a clogged filter along the same path. If there is a check valve in that path, it also could be responsible. Another thing to check is the gear pump shaft seal. Basically, any air leak BEFORE the gear pump will introduce air in to the hydraulic lines.

    You also need to make sure that the reservoir remains more or less full, at least when the lift cylinder is fully compressed. If it runs down to within about 2 inches of the bottom, it will start to suck in air.
  11. racer47

    racer47 Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    :mechanic:dont tear apart pump ..if its all new its not pump or cylenders you just have air call me 740 649 8015 i can walk ya throught it their is several was to get the air out with plow on truck ussmileyflag. also dont waste you time useing e 47 if you have air changeing pump is not going to help anyway besides that the e 47 are to slow... wants you go e60 you will never go back only forward
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  12. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    the problem is not with getting the air out of the pistons. i know how to do that. it takes me 15 minutes to get them completely full of oil.
    the problem is keeping the air out once the pump starts working.
    the more you angle the more air the pistons get in them
  13. racer47

    racer47 Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    you cant put oil in both at once thats why its air locked.... fill 1 cylender leave 1 calapsed the pump will do the rest you are just cycleing air back and forth ....if you do it like i said in post 7 you will be done or do it your way and keep playing with it i left you my number when you get tired of loseing oil and the battle call me
  14. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Nah, you can't cycle air back and forth because the pump is pumping oil into the cylinder that is extending. The cylinder that is compressing is dumping straight back into the reservoir, where air bubbles to the surface.

    This obviously needs to be repeated;
    You do NOT NEED TO BLEED a meyer plow pump. Cycling them back and forth several times is all you need to bleed them. If this does not work, and the oil level is maintained above the intake level, then it is DEFINITELY introducing new air into the cylinders as a result of a VACUUM LEAK between the reservoir and the hydraulic gear pump.
  15. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    like i said, no matter what i do, within 5 6 times of cycling left \/right the pistons get full of air.

    i took 2 brand new pistons. extend half way. slowly fill the pistons up until all the air is out and they are full of oil. put hoses on. slowly fill hoses up until they are full of oil and no air bubbles come out. put connectors on hoses, go outside and put pistons on plow. plow is now at straight point, and the pistons both bolt on, half extended.
    pick plow up and try to move by hand and it will not move. this means there is no air in the pistons.

    cycle plow left/right 5 times and the pistons are now 1/2 full of air.
    if i cycle the plow left/right 15- 20 times, the pistons are almost 3/4 air. i can by hand move the plow almost full left to right and back.

    i have been filling pistons this way after rebuilding them for 30 years, and never once had a problem before this E-60 pump was put on the truck 3 days ago
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  16. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    but if this was the case, than the lift cylinder would also have air in it too, rite?
    the lift is instant, no delay due to compressing the air like the angle cylinders do after cycling a few times.
    and the more you cycle them, the longer it takes to move. so it is introducing air into the angle cylinders, not bleeding them.
  17. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,160

    E60 pump is submersed in the reservoir, no pickup tube. Fluid level drops when plow is lifted since it using fluid to push the ram up. If it is level is low once plow is raised it is possible to pump air into angle rams. Make sure it is filled to within an inch and half of fill port with lift ram fully compressed.
  18. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    well, the problem is definitely in the pump.
    i put the E-47 from the 88 on the 02, and the E-60 from the 02 on the 88.
    the E-47 works perfectly on the 02, and the E-60 on the 88 took 5 cycles to fill the pistons with air :realmad:
  19. SnowLane

    SnowLane Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    This definately sounds like a bad pump shaft seal. The seal can suck air but may not leak fluid out.
  20. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    but if the pump was sucking air through the seal to the motor, it would also fill the lift cylinder with air, rite?
    the lift cylinder has no problem, only the angle cylinders.