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Am I getting Hosed?

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by icudoucme, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. icudoucme

    icudoucme Senior Member
    Messages: 349

    Okay I've searched this site along with others and have been able to grasp some concepts of equipment purchasing. My only big purchases have been a pickup truck(2004 chevy 2500hd gas) and a utility tractor(JD 4520 lots of attachments). I really didn't haggle I just called around for prices and went with the cheapest price(everything was apples to apples). I knew both salesmen at the chevy dealer and the John Deere dealer and felt they gave me a fair price.

    Now I am in need of some help. I've been shopping around for about a year now and have been heavily researching all my options.(tak TL230, JD322D, ASV PT80 and Cat287c) I'm down to a
    2008 cat 287c with 50 hours it.
    options include pressure cab with heat NO AC,
    High flow XPS, single speed(only downside),
    power coupler,
    Air Ride Seat
    Glass door not poly
    bucket level,
    84" GP bucket,
    Last but not least 8' snow wolfe with wings(Box blade ends like the Kage system)
    It comes with a 1 year/1500 hour warranty
    Manufacture date is 04/08
    2yr 2000hr powertrain and hydraulic warranty through Cat Insurance $1720.00. 2) 2yr 2000hr full machine warranty $3070.00. None of the warranties cover travel time and mileage

    I'm currently awaiting the oil sample analyst before I sign anything. I asked to see all the service bulletins/updates and proof they were completed.:

    PIP # STAT DESCRIPTION MODEL ISSUE EXPIRE

    PI10714 COMPLETE Correcting the s 287C 09/16/08 00/00/00

    PI31561 COMPLETE Reworking the b+ 287C 09/22/08 09/30/09

    PS42969 COMPLETE Reworking the tr 287C 09/21/09 09/30/11

    The price with all listed is 63,918.00 with tax 69,031.17.
    I can only put 10% down so I now i lose leverage there. The interest rate is 1.95% for 60month.

    I know Cats are pricier then the rest but the machine is almost 2 years old. I know when I drive it away it loses 20-30% of its value. How without being a jerk do I see if they can go lower?
     
  2. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    holy *****
    Now I don't know Cat's and I couldn't tell you what model that is.
    but it's going to take a heck of a long time to pay off $65,000 (plus tax) for a skid steer vs. another used for about 30 grand.

    It costs $30/hour to run a skid steer (fair enough round number, some are less, some are more, but that's my experience).
    But for $65 grand, you could buy a compact wheeled loader.

    There are a ton of used, under 1000 hours cabbed big skid steers under 30 grand. The guy who buys the 30 grand one will either make more or be able to charge less than the guy who buys the 65 grand one.

    BUT

    IMHO
    The single speed is a deal killer
    so is the No A/C.

    Ever been in a tiny cab when it's sunny out and 50 degrees? It's HOT. Sorry, a cab requires A/C to do any summer work IMHO

    And for 65 grand it should have everything.

    that's ridiculous, walk away.

    and 70 grand is about $1200 a month in payments for 5 years.
    That's a ton of work just to pay that monthly nut PLUS MAINTENANCE PLUS TIRES PLUS PLUS PLUS plus somewhere making money.
     
  3. icudoucme

    icudoucme Senior Member
    Messages: 349

    it's a tracked compact loader.. well multi terrian (ASV style tread) 80hp. I liked that style because of the work I do plowing, beach cleaning, land clearing, and fence post installation.
    I'm starting to think your right i shouldn't have to compromise.
     
  4. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member
    from s/w co
    Messages: 639

    Check other sources like Iron Planet, Machinery Trader, etc. I have not priced out an MTL lately but that sounds like a lot. You will always pay more for a Cat at a Cat dealer. The benefit is the financing and dealer support. You will not get Cat financing if you buy somewhere else but you will pay less. Unfortunately the financing you are getting from the dealer is probably about 5-6% less (for the interest rate) and that will probably end up being cheaper if you take the loan to term. In other words you will pay a higher price for the purchaase of the unit, but you will end up paying less if you add the price of the tractor and the interest you paid to borrow the money (compared to a tractor that cost less up front but came with a higher interest rate). I would think that if you were willing to pay that much you should be looking at a brand new unit. You may pay a little more but you will probably be able to finance at 0% and maybe with zero down.
    By the way, to put this into perspective, I paid less than that for a used 3 yard loader ('04 Deere 544J w/only 1100hrs). You probably can find a better deal than that if you look harder.
    Lastly, don't be afraid of hurting the salesman's feelings. His job is to get the most money he can for each unit. Your job should be to get it for the least. These days you should have the upper hand because sales are slow. Find other units to compare it to and see if he will match it (if you find one for less-which I think you can). If you are not willing to walk away he has the upper hand. If you are truly uncomfortable with the price tell him what it will take to make you willing to buy. The worst thing that he can do is say no. YOU ARE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT!
     
  5. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    i tell you what, for $65 000, you could buy alot of quality equipment. i own 2 skidsteers, and a loader, and i paid about that.
     
  6. Deco

    Deco Senior Member
    Messages: 453

    there is a guy around me that wants $74k for a track cat . sentimental value , i'm guessing :laughing:
     
  7. kcress31

    kcress31 Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Seems high. I have recently priced Cat vs John Deere a few times in the last 2 years and my Cat dealer has been competetive to the Deere guy. Recently bought In January 2008 an 08 John Deere R.T. Backhoe 310 SJ Tool Carrier, loaded, Air, Ride control, forks, thumb, $96,000. I also just recently bought a 2010 Bobcat A 300, A/C, 2 speed, ride control, high flow, 80 inch HD bucket, Hd Forks, 84 inch sweeper and Gutter Brush, with wet kit, severe duty tires, stereo, Beacon, Loaded, about $ 67,000 incl taxes. I shopped 3 different bobcat dealers. One dealer was $4 k more and another dealer was $10 K more.

    I am finally expecting delivery on Monday.
     
  8. EGLC

    EGLC PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,733

    you can find the same machine with around 300hrs with AC and 2 speed for under $35k easily
     
  9. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    very easily, like you should be able to stumble into one without effort easy, lol:D
     
  10. icudoucme

    icudoucme Senior Member
    Messages: 349

    I've been searching for about a year now and I think I'm gonna wait till i can get what I want for the price i can afford. Like DGODGR said YOU ARE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT. I'm just starting to think equipment salesmen are worse then used car salesmen....
     
  11. icudoucme

    icudoucme Senior Member
    Messages: 349

    Yeah I thinki may have found that one and another actually! one was 55,000 and the other was 38,000....

    The takeuchi dealer called me back today and gave me a price of 51,000 and some change for a brand new TL250. I found a new one online with a 4 in 1 bucket, root rake with grapple, and pallet forks for 45,000.

    I know salesmen have to make money too along with the business they work for, but some just seem like they mark up way to much...


    Like DGODGR said, I can ask a price and the worse they're gonna say is no.
     
  12. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    i can't say a lot about prices down there, however i know for a fact, that where i am at i was looking at a JD 332, (really big machine), low hours (250ish i think) and was looking at $35000 taxes in, when i bought my 40xt it was 3 years old, had 400hours on it, and i paid $21000 +taxes, and in a weak economy there should be deals a plenty around, if i were you, i would be checking equipment dealers in Detroit, and other big cities that have been hit hard, you well probably find some really stellar deals on new / next to new equipment and even if you pay a couple grand for shipping it (or you get it yourself) i think you well find some deals out there and save yourself a slew of money. Also a side note, with a skidsteer, don't be afraid to buy use, even hit up a auction, because there are many a landscaper/contractor that is down sizing or going out of buisness that have next to new machines, and the banks aren't going to wait to get what they are worth, i know a guy here who picked up a 85xt case, with about 1000hours on it at auction this spring for a whooping $11 000 dollars, nothing wrong with it, he put on new tires, had it serviced and checked out at the dealer, and hasn't looked back!!!
     
  13. icudoucme

    icudoucme Senior Member
    Messages: 349

    The Cat salesman called me back early this morning saying he had found a a 2008 297c(~90hp) 10,000+lbs operating weight. It has a 100 hours on it. The machine is loaded with everything, heat ac, air ride seat, high flow, 2 speed, cd am/fm, power attach plate, amex, self level, block heater, beacon, and warranty for 55,000 (total). I told him he had a deal. I know cats have there problems but after exhausting research I'm confident its a fair deal. I had also received a call from my local Takeuchi dealer and told him I had went with Cat he told me "Thats okay call me in six months and I'll give you a great trade in value on a new TL250". thanks for the help.