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all members please read.... long.

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by andrewlawnrangr, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. andrewlawnrangr

    andrewlawnrangr Senior Member
    Messages: 339

    let me first say that no one is perfect.. the reason why am writing this is because i have a BIG problem. i have a sub that drives for me during storms. he drives my truck and plows my accounts. to this point very reliable dependable and works very well. as many kno here in pa we got some snow. so i called him to come in and go to my house and grab the truck.ok so far no problem. list is in the truck. he drives to the first place, clears that lot. drives to the next and says i called my brother in to help shovel... ok no problem that was at noon. him and his brother are now doin the places together which i think would go a little faster. off and on fone calls to see where they are during the day and i was speaking with his brother. ok no problem there in the same truck. so 8pm comes around and we are both done so i say meet me at my house to drop the truck off( during storms trucks are left at the house, shop is 15 min away.. try to save time) well his brother is driving as they pull up to the house. again ok mybe hes tired . his bro gets out with the list and the times are a bit longer. 30-1 hour longer on some places .... NOT ok.... well next my sub, who ownes a landscape co who strictly does installs, nothing else this is why he works for me in the winter to do snow. steps out of the passengers side and is swaying, and sluring his words. and i mean bad. he was swaying like he was wasted and i could bairly understand him.. so i said.. hey man u ok? hes like yeah man im good.. like i said befor he has been very good im the past years. but this.. im taken back.. i pay him $32.00 an hour. and the time he worked i owe him about 475 bucks. and i have to pay his brother $165 dollars.

    i thought he was on pills or he was drinking.. well that night about 30 min after they left i called his fone and he picked up.. i asked him what was up. hes like man im just tired i was workin all day. still sluring his words. im like ok man what ever bye....

    well today i went out to the truck to do some snooping around well i found a water bottle empty that stunk like vodka or rum but some kind of alk.. i am goin to pay his brother but how should i go about this.....call and say i cannot pay him due to what i found in the truck and his condition .. sorry for this being so long but im pissed. i have enough work for him and i do need him but what do i do?/

    thanks all
    andrew
     
  2. KGRlandscapeing

    KGRlandscapeing 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,660

    whats the contract say. i bet u forgot to put that in there. just pay him square up and let him go. the work got done. u just never want it to happend again so cut him loose
     
  3. mc1

    mc1 Senior Member
    Messages: 171

    i agree pay him and let him go he did the work and didnt wreck your truck or worse its only 500 i would let him know why you are letting him go might lead to some good entertainment
     
  4. scottL

    scottL PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,602

    Pay him up. Write him off. Find another.

    You and your insurance can not afford a drunk behind the wheel. Don't even bother bringing it up to him ... if he showed no responsibility and poor judgment in driving drunk then he probably won't care what you will tell him either.
     
  5. veggin psd

    veggin psd Senior Member
    Messages: 276

    Cut you losses now. He may have only cost you a couple hundred bucks to this point, but could have been a couple hundred thousand or more. ELIMINATE your exposure to a possible liability situation.
     
  6. Young Pup

    Young Pup PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,490

    Any liquid left in the bottle? Have it tested. On odor alone, it might be hard to prove anything. Just my thoughts. But if you are confindent on this then pay him and let him go. Or else he might be able to get you on wrongful termination, maybe.
     
  7. X-LOWBALLER

    X-LOWBALLER Senior Member
    from Toronto
    Messages: 102

    Should you pay him? Dumb question. Sorry. How do you know they didn't "find" that bottle or picked it up along the way? If you did nothing then, you can do nothing now.

    I don't see how paying someone when the work was completed and the truck came back in one piece (even if it didn't) you wouid still have to pay.
     
  8. BSDeality

    BSDeality Senior Member
    Messages: 736

    he was a sub... no rules about sh-canning a sub for any reason
     
  9. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    First of all,...he is NOT a sub. he was using our truck, and was being paid $32 an hour (why, I have NO idea). He is an employee.
    Anyway, as far as paying him,...what's a good drunk worth these day? I'm not sure of the going rate. On another aspect, you were paying him 32 an hour to drive your truck...not ride shotgun. You have NO idea if this guy (the brother) has a license or is even insurable. If he would have hit someone or something, it would have been your tail.
     
  10. Clapper&Company

    Clapper&Company PlowSite Veteran
    from NE OHIO
    Messages: 4,413

    JP & Runner are right

    The guy is now a Sub
     
  11. Young Pup

    Young Pup PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,490

    I am glad someone else read that the same way as me.
     
  12. abbert55

    abbert55 Senior Member
    Messages: 170

    I had a similar experience. I merely confronted the guy with the evidence (bottle under the seat) and told him that whatever he does on his time is his business. DON'T show up for work with alcohol in you. If you have a problem, I will help you find help. If it ever happens again, you will lose your job. You indicated you really need him, and he has been a good employee until now, maybe he is going thru some difficult times? I would explain to him you can't afford to expose the business to this kind of liability. See if you can "give him a second chance" and take it from there.;)
     
  13. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    I think you mean NOT a sub.

    I'd agree - by any standard, he was an employee. But - is there any need to "fire" him? Simply decide if you want to use him again, either as an employee or sub. In other words, don't worry about what classificatiom he was. Since he has no set hours, you can just not call him. Any chance of talking to him to see what the problem was? But you definately want to make a record of this incident and what assurance you have that it will not happen again. You also want to make sure that any driver of your vehicles will be covered by your insurance. A true sub will usually not be covered by your insurance as subs provide thier own. Employees may need to be listed on the policy.
     
  14. andrewlawnrangr

    andrewlawnrangr Senior Member
    Messages: 339

    thank you all i am goin to call him tomarow in the morning.. he does rent equipment from me all year round so i mean i dont want to kill the relationship but still i dont need that.. the bottle wasnt found it was the same as he was holding as he was spitting in it from dippin'..
     
  15. THEGOLDPRO

    THEGOLDPRO PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,136

    i dunno first off your paying HIM to drive and plow the route not his brother, secondly you said it took him longer then it should have prolly cause he was drunk, and the brother was doing all the work and doesnt know the lots as well.

    if it were me i would confront him tell him you know he was drunk, show him the bottle, fire him, and pay him half for his time. more then likely hes gonna take the half and move on.
     
  16. Snowpower

    Snowpower Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    Be a man. Be the Boss. Actually Talk to him. I know it's a novel approach.
     
  17. Snowpower

    Snowpower Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    and spend the next month servicing the accounts himself, and hopefully he can find a replacement for next year, and from what I hear on here finding decent help is a pain.

    I suggest a meeting. A discussion. An explanation of the rules but I wouldn't go accusing anyone of anything.

    I'd also suggest to the thread starter to meet up with his crew or second truck a few times an event. To see whats up, chat, maybe grab a sandwich or a fresh coffee.

    I'm not minimizing the possibility they were drinking. But I'm sure this can be worked out without firing everyone and leaving himself in a tight spot while losing a decent employee who may or may not have had a bad night.
     
  18. THEGOLDPRO

    THEGOLDPRO PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,136

    yeah well he got lucky this time, they made it home in one piece, what if you let it slide then he does the same crap again and kills someone. forget that, but do what you like i personally would can him for it. either way good luck.
     
  19. SteveR

    SteveR Senior Member
    Messages: 252

    Its a shame to lose a good man for a mistake..If its the first. Look at the good side he climbed out of the passengers seat...This makes him worth something of a second chance because he had the brains to not drive. I think Id give him a stern talk and tell him the other guy is not to work for you again. It seems that they are only a problem together. I think some days employees suck and I was making more money and less headaches without them...Bigger aint always better
     
  20. Scottscape

    Scottscape Senior Member
    Messages: 662

    Well said. The meet up thing is a great idea. I'm sure he was drunk or on something or maybe both, who knows. I would surely pay him but let him know the circumstances. He might think you don't mind too much. Good help is hard to find. and yes he is classified as an employee. your time, your truck, your fuel and his labor.

    If it were my employee that worked for me throughout the season, that knows how I am and knows the attitude that I have towards something like that and knew I would definitely fire him without a doubt.

    definitely pay him though.