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8.5 convetional pro won't hardly raise, help

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by mark-lehmer, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    Been working on this plow all weekend and can't find the problem .
    Things I've done so far checked the screen, new fluid , got 1800 psi
    cartridges seem fine coils work correctly.Lubed packing nut.
    Had the motor checked . I can only get the blade off the ground a couple inches
    then it won't raise past that point.left to right fine, right to left fine and lower is good .
     
  2. fordman22

    fordman22 Senior Member
    from ohio
    Messages: 102

    i had a problem with mine. but mine is a old cable plow and i couldnt get it to do anything other than lift a inch or so off the ground. im not sure about your set up but with mine i had to pull the pump out of the pump housing and i found that the o-ring on the bottem was sucked half way down into the pump. hope this helps!
     
  3. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    thanks for your reply'
    I just did pull the motor then pump
    the oring was good I raised the pump psi to 2000
    I'll hook the plow up tomorrow when I get home from work to see it if will lift it then.
    I just don't think thats the problem .
     
  4. got-h2o

    got-h2o 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,439

    Are you sure your cables are adjusted properly? Best way to rule that out is to remove the cover on the pump on the lift side (top of the 2), remove the cable and tru to operate the small lever with a screwdriver or prybar.
     
  5. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,979

  6. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Is this a cable operated plow or electric? You speak of "cartraiges and coils" but the cable system that is being discussed above has none of these???? Sounds to me like and Isarmatic, is that right?

    If it is in deed the isarmatic electrically controlled plow then it might be the S3 valve sticking but that has to work to angle left and you say that works fine. Where did you test the pressure? At the base of the cylinder or from the plug in the valve block? If you tested at the base of the cylinder and got 1800 psi then I would suggest you have some physical thing resisting the movement of the ram. Try pulling the chain off the ram and see if the ram extends without the plow on it. Let us know exactly what kind of unit it is and we will be able to give more detailed advice

    Here is a link to the isarmatic electric unit, I see you already have a link to the cable plow. Hopefully one of them is the right guide... http://library.westernplows.com/westernplows/pdf/21936_121704.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  7. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    Mine not the cable type, It's got the three coils.And I did download the manual.
    would a stuck poppet valve do this ?
     
  8. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    I tested the psi on the angle left hook up at the pump
    yes it is a isarmatic
     
  9. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    The poppet check vavle only affects angling left and right. Look on page 17 of the guide, you will see that the S2 valve has a check valve under it in the diagram but it is actually part of the S3 I believe. In any case that ball check has to open for everything so if anything is working then that is not the problem. I think, if you actually have 1800 psi that you might have some debree plugging your fluid channel between the S1 valve and the quill. Try pulling the plug at the base of the ram and the S1 at the same time, then blow some compressed air into the ram base plug. This will blow out any dirt that is jamming into the quill. A piece of dirt there could be acting like a check valve allowing fluid out but restrictiing it going in. You could try turning back the quill valve too, If it's cranked in too far it would do the same. On your plow the fluid is restricted both ways by the quill. On newer plows it is only restricted going down.
     
  10. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    when I put the joy stick to float the ram pushes down by hand
     
  11. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    thanks Mishnick I'll do that tomorrow night
    I'll update you then
     
  12. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Put the pressure gauge on the hole at the base of the lift ram. This will tell you how much pressure is actually getting to the lift ram. I suspect it will be very low. At this point we know the pump, pressure relief valve and fluid gallaries between the pump and the valve block are OK so it has to be either a valve problem, the quill or dirt in the fluid channel between S1 and the lift cylinder chamber. Could also be a problem with the S1 valve. Notice that there is a ball valve on the default side of the valve (side that is active when coil is not powered), if the ball valve is not moving or is plugged up it would restrict the fluid going to the lift ram but would have no effect on the drop speed. Pull the S1 and have a good look at that too. Blow it out with compressed air.
     
  13. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,979

    good eye mish,,i missed the "coils" i just got the conventional part stuck in my head.
    maybe a long shot,,,but maybe your lift ram packing.....after you find out what the lift ram psi is
     
  14. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    He says he can push the lift ram down by hand so we have eliminated the packing nut as a cause. We are down to valves or debree in the valve block fluid gallaries now.
     
  15. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,979

    But what if packing is shot letting fluid past?
     
  16. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    He didn't say anything about leaking? If the packing nut is bad there would be fluid everywhere when he tried to go up. And there is no seal inside the cylinder on the end of the ram since it is a single acting cylinder.
     
  17. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,979

    Gotcha. Wasn't thinking bout that
     
  18. Yooper75

    Yooper75 Senior Member
    Messages: 324

    I had a similar problem on a cable operated conventional mounted 7'-6" Pro Plow and it turned out to be ice forming in the bottom of the pump housing and restricting the fluid flow. I had changed the fluid and the problem still remained and I also pulled the pump out of the bottom of the housing for inspection. The only thing that solved it was draining the fluid and taking the pump off the truck and then hanging it upside down over a 5 gallon bucket over a weekend inside our office.
     
  19. fordman22

    fordman22 Senior Member
    from ohio
    Messages: 102

    yooper mine was the same problem and i also pulled the pump out of the pump housing...the o-ring was half way down inside the pump..replaced it put it all back together. pump went from all the way lowered to a full lift in 2 seconds :)
     
  20. mark-lehmer

    mark-lehmer Junior Member
    from 64470
    Messages: 8

    I came up with a new sympton tonight after increasing the psi to 2000 the angle rams jerk when I raise it.leads me to think fluid is getting by the 4way valve then back to the tank. any thoghts ? The ram goes right up without the blade hooked so I don't think there is any blockage. Off to the shop I go to do psi testing, Raising the psi did give me 2 more inches off the ground, about 2/3 of the stroke.