1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

4R100 failure

Discussion in 'Ford Trucks' started by Mark Oomkes, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    I won't bore everyone with a long story unless you want more details.

    '99 F550 7.3 with 4R100.

    Tranny cooked last January, brought it in for a rebuild and they pulled these codes:

    P1690 Wastegate solenoid circuit
    P0471 Exhaust pressure sensor performance
    P0470 Exhaust pressure Sen. Circuit

    THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO BE FIXED. THIS COULD/CAN/DID LEND A HAND IN THE TRANSMISSION FAILURE.

    I am getting mixed messages. They're telling me that low turbo boost was overworking the engine and causing the tranny to slip and burn up.

    So they rebuilt it. 2 nights later it cooked again. They tell me operator abuse, then admit there was an internal parts failure.

    Installed a reman. Makes it a few nights again and cooks.

    Installed another reman. Hauls a total of 8 yards of toposil. A different mechanic is test driving it and it cooks again. No load, no plow.

    Different shop replaced it. Fixed the issues, plus RMS, rusted manifolds, etc and placed a HD transmission in it with aux. electric cooler. It's never gone over 150 on the gauge, and never another problem.

    So much for the short story.

    Can low turbo boost cause the engine to lug that bad that it will cook the tranny?

    The first shop continues to tell me that this was the cause.
     
  2. Defcon 5

    Defcon 5 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,667

    Wouldn't low turbo boost be noticed in engine performance....Did the driver of said vehicle notice poor performance before cooking the tranny.....:confused:
     
  3. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    One would think, wouldn't one?

    Little more info.

    Same tranny shop blamed a tranny failure in a Chevy on a random misfire from a bad plug wire. They also blamed a shifting issue (after their rebuild) on a bad engine sensor.

    I'm not too bright, but I see a pattern.
     
  4. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    because they do not know what they are doing, but refuse to admit it.
     
  5. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    Had that figured out, just trying to confirm.
     
  6. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,437

    low boost + fuel = rolling coal.

    so what if you lug the engine or use low rpm's (other than its not good for the engine,)

    If the TC spins slowly because of low rpms it woun't up shift or shifts into 2nd
    Kind of like idelin around town...

    bad TC? or they didn't clean out the cooler and it sucked in crap?
     
  7. all ferris

    all ferris Senior Member
    Messages: 119

    Mark - I'm not sure if you have ever had a tranny apart before or not but they are not really rocket science like everyone seems to think. I am not familiar with said transmission but they generally all work the same way. Hydraulic pressure is what "clamps" the clutches together. If you have low pressure the clutches will slip and overheat, causing failure. Then you also have "hard parts" such as planetaries, sun shells, ect. that can break and cause failure. I'm not 100% positive but an engine that is low on power would cause less stress on a transmission. To me it sounds like you were receiving a poor rebuid. The term "rebuild" is a broad term. Some guys just replace the obvious damaged parts and claim they are "rebuilt". However, a solenoid that is not allowing the correct pressure to be applied to the clutches would not be so obvious. I have a feeling you got a "rebuild" that either had inferior parts or who ever did the "rebuild" did not replace all the parts. You got hosed, sorry.
     
  8. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,437

    Hey, I need details.


    Did the guy who did the work walk around with a timmys
    in one hand and a 12" RandyDog in the other?
     
  9. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,563

    I would guess you had a clogged/restricted stock cooler or lines. By the way that tube for exhaust pressure is known to clog causing those codes. New ones are cheap or pull old one off and clean it.
     
  10. maxwellp

    maxwellp PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,112

    "So much for the short story.

    Can low turbo boost cause the engine to lug that bad that it will cook the tranny? "

    First thought is NO.

    Now I don't fix Fords much so this is just from an automotive background.
    If the trans line pressures are controlled by the computer, having low boost could cause low line pressure and make the clutches slip. This would be because the computer thinks the engine is not making any power.
    Now take this with a grain of salt because it is hypothetical. Just an idea.

    I friend of mine had a late 90's F350 gas, that in 30k miles ate three transmissions. All under warranty. For the 4th one it was replaced with a factory new one. Problems Fixed. First three where fixed at the Ford Dealer.
     
  11. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    Mark my tranny guy is great and he stands behind his work. When he rebuilt my tranny it was almost bulletproof. 2 years of heavy abuse. From plowing to towing. And some hardcore off-road use. And when I junked my Blazer ZR2 it was still running and shifting fine. The frame was bent and cracking. Do to jumping and hard landings
     
  12. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,498

    Just proving trip edges saves transmissions.
     
  13. MK97

    MK97 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,046

    That's crap. A low boost issue wouldn't cook a trans. I had low boost issues in my 7.3 for a couple months while chasing the issue. If it's low on power, it'll drop a gear to compensate not grenade.

    I'm betting they didn't change the trans cooler, or even flush it and it had a bunch of crap in the lines or clogged. That's pretty standard to replace and I'm betting they didn't bother. Cooler is almost always the cause of failure, and why the 6.0 cooler is almost a mandatory upgrade.

    Bingo.

    It's $40 for the line and easier to just replace it as it might have small cracks in the line.
     
  14. damian

    damian Senior Member
    Messages: 330

    Hi Mark sorry to here about your trans woes. Speaking as a shop owner\ tech who specializes in light diesel and until 8 years ago overhauled all of our automatics, We will repair a trans:solenoids,wireing etc but if it needs overhaul they come from Jasper. The EBP codes and the po1690 have nothing to do with your trans failure. We stopped bench overhauling transmissions when it became clear modern, lightened,electronic, multispeed transmissions need specialized care to address case straightness,valve body bore wear, crossleaks, updates,and other issues too numerous to list here. The beer bottle on the bench overhaul shops are dead,they just dont know enough to lay down.They have gone by the way of starter and alternator rebuilders. You can not remanufacture a modern trans on the bench in a shop, nevermind at a competitive price and warranty.
     
  15. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    Well, this brings me back the day of the Ford disaster with the 5R110 back in '05. We had 2, one made it 500 miles before the planetary "walked out" and it stopped shifting. The second one had the weak snap ring that fell out and blew a hole in the side of the case.

    So I was talking to the mechanic and the service writer about #2. First of all, they stated the reason the case cracked was due to operator error, not stopping before shifting. And Ford would warranty it once, but not again because of the abuse. They were explaining to me how great of a tranny the Torqshift was. It has this neato thing programmed into it that won't allow the transmission to shift from F to R or R to F when movement is sensed on the output shaft.

    At this point, they were probably wondering why my jaw was on the floor. I asked them if they realized what they just said. They looked at me with stares as blank as obama's mind. I said something along the lines of "If the transmission won't shift if movement is sensed, how can this failure be blamed on abuse?" I then asked them about the other 13 SD's they had sitting in the lot with blown Torqshifts. And the Torqshifts that were dropping like flies all over the country and Canada. These mental midgets replied "We didn't think of that."

    Stupid **** for brains.

    So when I hear BS like low turbo boost causing a tranny to fail, my BS meter pegs. When I hear "operator abuse" before they look at it, my BS meter goes to at least halfway. When I hear "too heavy of a load while plowing" my BS meter is a millimeter from pegging. Never mind the thousands if not millions of 4R100's and E4OD's that are on the road, hauling trailers and loads all over the freaking country.

    So this is basically for my satisfaction, asking what you all think. I will no longer darken the doorstep of this company. I will also tell any other plower I come in contact with what a bunch of shysters these aholes are. And have learned an expensive lesson.
     
  16. MK97

    MK97 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,046

    That's actually pretty funny that the reason they cited was also something that couldn't happen thanks to not allowing it to shift before stopping. Sounds like a bunch of morons running a shop and looking for any and all reasons to not warranty work.
     
  17. maxwellp

    maxwellp PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,112

    :laughing: "They looked at me with stares as blank as obama's mind." Thumbs Up :laughing:

    :dizzy: I just spit my coffee out my nose.
     
  18. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,563

    You have the worse luck with slush boxes. Maybe stop believing everything you read here and not use plow fluid in the tranny. :mechanic:
     
  19. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    LOL, but they're the same.

    Between that conversation and many other service failures from 3 different Ford dealers in the area, it is one of the reasons I bought a Ram.

    My BIL had to deal with BS on his 6.7 that seized up on him after he had it back to them 6 times and they told him everything was fine. After it was towed in and he called to check on it a few days later, the idiot told him they had to get it started to check codes. That was the one dealer I never tried. Guess why.

    Between electric spreaders and ****** Ford dealers, I might start drinking as heavily as Defcon.
     
  20. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,870

    Damn Mark you have about the worst mechanical luck of anyone I know.

    If you have any more Ford trans issues: Brian's Truck Shop, Lead Hill Arkansas. It's worth it. Call and talk to him about his warranty and how they stand behind their transmissions.