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2WD backhoe for plowing?

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by eortheain, Oct 27, 2003.

  1. eortheain

    eortheain Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    I've been offered a Case 580 Super L at a very attractive price, and I'm thinking about using it for plowing.

    However, the machine is 2WD only, and I'm wondering if that makes the machine unsuitable for plowing.

    So here's my question for those of you who use backhoe loaders with containment plows -- just how important is 4WD?

    Thanks a lot for any insight!
     
  2. ProSno

    ProSno Senior Member
    Messages: 257

    4wd is the only way to go. 2wd is useless and the second strike is its a case. We've run big equipment for years and only run John Deere after much disappointment with other backhoes. Loaders I am much more flexible on but backhoe-Case stinks from the get go let alone 2wd. Not trying to offend anyone but I'd rather have someone be blunt with me than candy coat the situation so I am giving you my 25 yrs experience with machines and snow. pumpkin:
     
  3. eortheain

    eortheain Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    Case vs anything

    The advice is much appreciated.

    Are there other brands to avoid? How do Deere's backhoe loaders compare to Cat, Komatsu, New Holland and JCB?

    Is there a used backhoe buyer's guide out there? :)
     
  4. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    Please tell us how you really feel. Seriously this is a good statement. I see no offense just actual experience talking. Don't just take Pro's word ask around to some others and make an informed decision.

    I would say 2wd would onlt be good for flat lots andlong pushes. Tight work and stacking would lead to problems.
     
  5. ProSno

    ProSno Senior Member
    Messages: 257

    I've never run Cat, Case is very unbalanced and front end light. John Deere has been a much better and more balanced machine. We have run a JD 2wd for two years at a commercial site and even though it did the job it was a pain in the xxx with no traction. We then ran a case 4wd and it was'nt much better. Along came a JD 310 4wd and whala! power! traction, balance, comfort. No comparison. I hear Cat is good also but have never run one.
     
  6. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    I never liked JD up until this years model I was always a case guy and thought that they made the best machine.Acutally they where the only ones who made a real backhoe in the 70's.The cat 420 is a nice machine have not run the newer JD's but have tried like a 99 or 00 model was not impresed that much.You can run 2wd drive it's just that you need an experienced driver.But if you get it for a good deal get work it then trade it for a 4wd unit next year.I pushed snow with my 2wd and was fine but i upgraded to 4wd.
     
  7. phillyplowking1

    phillyplowking1 Senior Member
    Messages: 412

    I have all case backhoes 6 are 4x2 580Sl and 2 are 4x4 590M .The 2wd ones Do pretty good but in heavy snow they aint worth ****. The 4x4s are the way to if you are plowing but i just had the hydro pump go for the 3rd time in 1 of the 590s.Case is fixing this under warrenty and I have a free rental why its down,other than that I have never had any trouble mechanical wise with them and they are working all year round.
     
  8. Team_Yamaha

    Team_Yamaha Senior Member
    Messages: 240

    I have a Case 590 4X4, Ford 545 2wd, and right now triing out a 420 Cat 4X4. The 590 is great in snow plenty of traction and power. The 545 is mainly just used in the yard for loading the salters, and I really don't like using it for that, even with about 2 tons on the 3pt. the thing just sucks. I havn't had the 420 or any Cat in snow, so I can't tell you anything about that. But my 2 cents are don't even mess with a 2wd for plowing, it may be fine for pushing dirt in the summer, but not meant for snow.
     
  9. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    I rent when I need them. I have found that the Cat & especially JD's are not as comfortable to operate as a case. Cramped quarters and some basic things not where they should be to make it easier to get in & out, etc, IMO. I have only used those in the summer & they kicked butt as far as digging & power, etc. and seemed stronger than comparably sized Cases that I am used to. I have mostly used Case over the years, and have always used Case for snow work. If you are pushing a box, then 2wd might be a problem, especially with a lesser experienced operator. With 2wd you'd definitely have to stick with the smallest size specified for a back hoe vs no problem with the largest size if it is 4wd. Not pushing a pusher, I have never had a problem using a 2wd Case. I used a 2wd for 6 days after our 20" February storm last season and managed to only get it stuck once. I had no idea but the gravel lot I was in had a 3"-4" slab of ice under the snow & I got a little too close to the neighbor's hedge row & had to hoe my way back onto the lot. Other than that, this was a well used & abused older machine with just about bald tires & it kicked butt stacking & plowing.

    That said I worked with a guy with a 2wd very old & abused barely running Ford a couple of years ago, and that guy was able to push a 14' Pro Tech without getting stuck and was pretty productive with it. Definitely not as productive as I was using a 590 4wd, but he kept up (4" storm though, he mighta been dead in the water if the storm was worse I'm sure). Chuck Smith saw that & might remember more details. So my vote is if you have a good operator & its the one you want, then it can be used for winter work. One of my subs has a JCB 2wd and he has no problems in the deep stuff, though he has never used a pusher with it.
     
  10. lamarbur

    lamarbur Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    I run a Deere 710 hoe and move some serious amounts of snow with it. I do two large schools, one with 600 parking spots, elementary school. several banks and on and on.. The 710 is a big machine and runs circles around our new competitor doing the junior high across from me, who is using a 590 super L.. All he has over me is a tighter turning radius, other than that, nothing. You chain MFD front axle and go for it.
     
  11. eortheain

    eortheain Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    Thanks a lot for all your input!

    Plan B: 1998 John Deere 410E, 4x4, 5500 hours,
    good shape all-around, just off lease, $24,000.

    Most similar 410E's I've seen have been about $10,000 more, so I think the bank's so happy to get it off its books that they're giving me a good price.

    Thoughts?
     
  12. lars

    lars Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    So why is 2wd so bad? I don't have much backhoe experience, and have never plowed with one, but it would seem that in certain situations a 4wd wouldn't be any better than a 2wd machine.

    In the instance of pushing (especially with a protech) the bucket is lowered some, picking up the front wheels, leaving most of your traction of the rear. I can see when moving with a full bucket more weight is on the front wheels , which would be an advantage for 4wd machines. Considering that snow is relatively light, it seems that you should still have plenty of traction on the rear wheels.

    So where does a 4wd machine really shine and why does it work so well?
     
  13. Bill c

    Bill c PlowSite.com Veteran
    from ny
    Messages: 85

    If the price is right I would jump on it and make some cash with it.The company I work for has been running them since they stopped changing ties by hand and still have a few from the seventys.As with any used machine I would check for the availability of parts in your area.
     
  14. accipiter12

    accipiter12 Senior Member
    Messages: 223

    I would imagine that having 4wd will allow you to keep the bucket on the ground longer before lifting the tires off the ground while trying to scoop. Some times scooping with front tires off the ground in "slippery" conditions can get you nowwhere. I have that problem while working in the mud. :realmad:


    Blake
    WA
     
  15. Pusher Joe

    Pusher Joe Junior Member
    Messages: 17

    2w

    I had a massy 2W the only thing you could do is roll with chains. It is a rough ride with alot of bounce.
     
  16. mud

    mud Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    I have owned and used my 680 H Case Backhoe for several years. Granted it is not the same machine that you are looking at but it dose a fair job plowing(I just have the bucket no pusher). It's no 4wd and it definitely isn't a loader but when you figure in what I paid for it (got it for 6 grand at a auction) it cant be beat.

    I mainly use this for a job (as far as plowing goes anyway) where I am only the back up (I only get called to sub if there is eight plus inches of snow or they have a breakdown), and for the most part I just help with the stacking on that job. Also run it out to my commercial accounts a few times a year to move back banks so I have more room to push with the truck.

    Have had to use it a few times to finish up my route when I had breakage on the plow truck and while it got it done would rather run the dodge as it is faster and I am paid by the season (with the exception of the sub job) not the hour.

    Just make sure that you have a good operator and you should be fine. If adding chains is a viable option then by all means do so. I personally don't because I would not be able to run it down the road when needed (just a matter of convenience for me with not having to load it up on the low boy to run from lot to lot (all within 2 miles of each other).
     
  17. Journier

    Journier Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    I own 1 580K Case Backhoe, the thing is the best machine ive ever owned.

    The engine is a 4 cylinder cummins diesel, same as the 6 cylinder version cummins makes just 2 cylinders lopped off :)

    so far ive owned this case 2wd for 10 years... not 1 problem.

    Also im sorta confused how you guys arent getting traction with your backhoes, the rear tires are giants just for that purpose.

    Ill shy away from the brand bashing, everyone gets a lemon eventually.
     
  18. drmiller100

    drmiller100 Senior Member
    from idaho
    Messages: 119

    i wonder if htat is the same engine in my case 75xt.

    75 horsepower or so??? no turbo?