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12 Volt DC motor question

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Kubota 8540, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

  2. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    Thats a great question, but I don't know the answer, I'd assume the pump dealer could give required specs and then you could match up the motor, but with a motor and pump in those styles you'd need a coupler of some kind I think??
     
  3. BigLou80

    BigLou80 Senior Member
    Messages: 558

    The motor manufacturer should be able to tell you what will work for your application. What are you planning on doing ?

    None of the motors linked to are 12 volts, the amp draw to do what you want to do at 12 volts would be more then most 12 volt vehicle systems can provide for more then a few seconds. A 2 HP 12V motor (if avialable) which I would think to be the minimum you want is going to draw over 138 amps assuming I did my math right. Even with a 200 amp alternator and dual batteries your not going to sustain those amps for long
    you might do better with a faster spinning lower HP motor and a gear reduction but I have no idea what you are trying to do
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  4. deicepro

    deicepro PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,124

    The biggest 12v motor that I have found was 1hp and 80amps at full load
    I did the same thing you are thinking, but I had to use a "gearbox" to reduce
    the rpms for the pump, yes you need a coupling from motor to pump
    also, buy a better spyder for the coupling, better spyders "amplify" the power of the motor
    a little bit
     
  5. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    I would like to have a high output electric sprayer setup. The connector would be no problem, a lovejoy coupling would work fine. Problem was when I started looking for an electric motor. Either the rpm was too high, which I thought could be controlled by a variable speed controller, like on an electric salt spreader, or the amperage seemed huge. If the amperage is so high, how do these spreaders work or handle the amperage required?
     
  6. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Did you make a setup with a roller pump? I just did a lovejoy coupling for my electric brinemaker and upgraded to the better quality Hytrel spyder.
     
  7. JohnnyU

    JohnnyU 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,040

    The problem is that in order to run at full torque, electric motors need to run at a certain rate. If it were me, I would look for something that was rated at 2-3X my desired speed, then build a reduction housing to give you your desired output speed. Roller chain would probably be sufficient for power transfer at those low speeds.
     
  8. BigLou80

    BigLou80 Senior Member
    Messages: 558

    I am not sure of what you are trying to spray but the pumps listed in your link will do 60GPM at 1000RPM, that will empty out a 375 gallon tank(assuming pickup truck) in 6 minutes you sure you want that much flow ?

    I would say you need a smaller pump that operates at higher RPM's . The pumps in your links are made for tractor PTO's. Not DC electric motors

    Assuming you want to spray de incing products, you don't need much of a pump at all, the tank is mounted above the outlet (so there is no head) and the head pressure will do most of the work. How many GPM's do you need and how much out put pressure do you want?
     
  9. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Actually the pump I would likely use would be 1 step smaller...
    http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.882/1186

    I've seen the electric sprayers that are available and they are cute. I'm not one to make a 2 mph pass to spray a 7' wide strip on a 75' wide parking area, I'm thinking more in the terms of 25' pass minimum at 6-10 mph quietly. The roller pump sprayer on the Kubota will spray a 25' pass at 4-6 mph while rattling the windows at 4 AM. I would rather have to much capacity and have to recirculate it than to have to slow down and make multiple passes.? With an electric sprayer on the pickup truck, there's no starting a cold gas engine, no refueling, etc. Just flip the switch and spray? I would like to end up with about 25-35 gpm even if I have to recirculate a little of that.
     
  10. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

    Answer me this--how much flow do you want? There are widely available 12V pumps---pumps that will flow some serious numbers. Also, remember that electric motors produce their maximum torque at zero RPMs--yes, zero. Your main issue will be how to regulate the RPMs, but there are some pretty heavy duty motor controllers available, as well.
     
  11. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    I would like to have about 25-35 gpm at a max of 60 psi. Even if I had to redirect or recirculate some of it, I really don't like coming up short.
     
  12. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

    Next questions--what are you pumping, and what's your budget? I'll do some looking around later---gotta run.

    :D
     
  13. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    I'm low budget when spending and high budget when billing? :laughing: Right now salt brine/ calcium chloride mix, but looking to be able to spray other de-iciers also possibly?
     
  14. BigLou80

    BigLou80 Senior Member
    Messages: 558

    There are lots of premade 12 volt pumps. After some googling I see that most premade units run electric diaphram and gas centrifugal pumps. Your flow rates seem high but I don't really know a whole lot about spaying deicer.

    If you want electric I would look at getting several smaller pumps ganged up to do the job. With multiple smaller pumps you will get some built in redundancy and the ability to keep an inexpensive pump in stock

    Here is a pump for salt water (should work for what you want) http://www.pumpstoreusa.com/assets/store/catalog/45-46.pdf There is no head in your application so you will be at the most GPH on the curve

    you could also use a few of these http://www.realgoods.com/product/wa...igh+flow+pump,+pump+shurflo+high+flow+12v.do won't give you the GPM you want but I think you could make it work.
     
  15. BigLou80

    BigLou80 Senior Member
    Messages: 558

    I was trying to explain this to some one who was looking at an aircompressor. The HP listed is MAX brake HP. Its the fraction of a second burst you get before the motor explodes
     
  16. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    I would like to set up a serious 12 volt electric sprayer for MY truck. I have set up gas engine powered centrifugal poly pump sprayers which are high volume low pressure. I have set up pto driven roller pump low volume high pressure sprayers. I have set up 220 volt electric / poly pumps. But I have no experience with a 12 volt electric sprayer system. The simplified design of either ON/OFF is something that sounds real good to me. No starting a cold gas engine, no need to carry fuel to refill, and no to little noise. The electric sprayers I have seen will cover 1 lane (if you call 7'-8' a lane) and 15 gal/ min at a max of 30 psi. I'm not saying these are not good, I'm saying it's not what I want.

    I would like to have a system that will pump up to 25-35 gal/min and working pressure of up to 60 psi. Yes, I already know higher pressure is not needed for de-icing liquids. The pump link will cover this and a little to spare.

    Tank...... http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=A-PU0205-52
    Motor?...... http://www.leeson.com/Products/products/DCMotors/lowvoltage.html
    Lovejoy coupling ...... http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/740
    Pump.... http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.882/1186
    Controller? .....http://www.leeson.com/Products/products/DCControls/lowvoltage.html

    Setting up the sprayer and spray bar is not a problem.

    How do you determine which motor, and controller / reducer gear box is the question. I'm not able to do the buy and try strategy on this one. I have seen prices on these motors at $500, pumps between $350-$850, lovejoys $40-$80, tanks at $350, controllers $ ???, gear boxes $ ???.

    I'd like to get this one right the first time?

    If you have already done this please post some pictures and / or part #'s.

    If you have worked with these motors and controllers or gear boxes, tell me what you figured out?
     
  17. Grassman09

    Grassman09 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,806

    Once you have it all figured out let me know and I will copy it. Looking to sell in Canada? I'll take some of that chocolate chip cookie brine but I want it made with chocolate milk not salt water or water. Have you looked at Rittenhouse or see if Dultimier knows?

    Oh will you still use the Gas on the trailer for delivering liquid?
     
  18. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Once I get it figured out I will triple the price and sell it to you Canadians just like the other designs.?

    Chocolate milk would be a must for that, although a little salt is good with it.

    Not much luck on Dultmeier. Rittenhouse is Canadian and to expensive for me.

    Yes I will still use the gas setup on the trailer to deliver, but not to Canada! :laughing:
     
  19. Grassman09

    Grassman09 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,806

    Rittenhouse is American as well they have us prices and a us warehouse and Canadian.
    They buy it all cheap in the usa stock it in there warehouse there send it to there Canadian place and then rape the farmers is Niagara cuz they dont know any better and need it pronto.

    Oh come on now I've been nice to you. Return the favor.
    Will you go to Carpenterville and look at that truck for me if i need it? You are a carpenter after all are you not? You will be in 7th heaven.:laughing:
     
  20. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    Turbo turf sells ready to go 12V pumps, maybe more econimical in the end considering tinkering time, shopping and shipping from 4-5 different places?????