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Old 11-20-2011, 04:20 PM
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Plumbing together 2 liquid de-icing tanks

Hi,

Looking for some pictures or schematics on the best way to do this. I have mild plumbing knowledge and am lost as to whether I require a return to both tanks or just one and how the pressure will equalize. Even plumbing for one tank would be helpful.

Thanks
Jeff
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:25 PM
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Are you going to fill both tanks seperatley ot do you want to fill just one and have it gravity feed over? Basically just hook the 2 tanks together, the bigger the hose the quicker your going to gravity feed over. You don't need a return. Fuel tanks on a big truck work the exact same way.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:52 PM
Matson Snow Matson Snow is offline
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Are you going to fill both tanks seperatley ot do you want to fill just one and have it gravity feed over? Basically just hook the 2 tanks together, the bigger the hose the quicker your going to gravity feed over. You don't need a return. Fuel tanks on a big truck work the exact same way.


Thats interesting.....On One of our Mack CLs i just replaced the Pump that circulates the fuel from the right to left tank....It was $279.45 for the pump and filter assembly.....:confused.....
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynden-Jeff View Post
Hi,

Looking for some pictures or schematics on the best way to do this. I have mild plumbing knowledge and am lost as to whether I require a return to both tanks or just one and how the pressure will equalize. Even plumbing for one tank would be helpful.

Thanks
Jeff
Depending on the gallons per minute of the pump ( assuming it's a gas powered ) you should split the return line to return to each tank and also tie together as low as possible. A pressurized return line will supply more liquid than a gravity return. Possibly 4-5 times more.

If you have electric low volume pumps a low placed tie between the tanks would most likely be enough with a return to 1 tank then gravity to level between the 2 tanks.

Confused?
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kubota 8540 View Post
Depending on the gallons per minute of the pump ( assuming it's a gas powered ) you should split the return line to return to each tank and also tie together as low as possible. A pressurized return line will supply more liquid than a gravity return. Possibly 4-5 times more.

If you have electric low volume pumps a low placed tie between the tanks would most likely be enough with a return to 1 tank then gravity to level between the 2 tanks.

Confused?

Yes its a gas pump, about 160 GPM. We plan on using anywhere from 10-100 GPM to actually fill, controlled by a ball valve, I assume I need a return as throttling back a 160 GPM pump to 10 GPM would be to much to do without a return correct? Also I do not know what you mean by a pressurized return, wouldn't it of course be pressurized by the excess pressure not being used by the output line?

Cheers
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynden-Jeff View Post
Yes its a gas pump, about 160 GPM. We plan on using anywhere from 10-100 GPM to actually fill, controlled by a ball valve, I assume I need a return as throttling back a 160 GPM pump to 10 GPM would be to much to do without a return correct?

You can reduce a 2" pump line to 1" safely, it will increase the pressure and reduce the flow, but I wouldn't restrict it anymore than that.


Also I do not know what you mean by a pressurized return, wouldn't it of course be pressurized by the excess pressure not being used by the output line?

Yes any liquid NOT used by the output line (spray boom) is pressurized when returned to the tanks. It should have a tee fitting, so that it is equally returned to each tank. The same for the suction line to the pump from the tanks. I would put a tee fitting in the suction line and pull liquid equally from each tank.

Cheers
A proper sized vent in each tank also.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:53 PM
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A proper sized vent in each tank also.
Ok I think I follow. Also this is for a fill station, so ideally I want to be able to throttle it back to 0, so I imagine the return should be a full 2" to accommodate full flow correct? Im going to do up a little sketch when I get a sec just to verify I got it all correct. Thanks for the help.

Jeff
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Matson Snow View Post
Thats interesting.....On One of our Mack CLs i just replaced the Pump that circulates the fuel from the right to left tank....It was $279.45 for the pump and filter assembly.....:confused.....
Our newest truck is a 2007 and we only have 5 of them and that's how they work, I actually have never heard of one that's not gravity fed but I'm not up on big trucks just the ones we own.

We spray about 50,000 gallons a year so I have a little idea about spraying. I thought Jeff was talking about his truck anyways. There's not really enough details about what he wants to do. We just let our bulk tanks gravity feed with no return, not sure how quick it needs to be done, you can also just idle the pump down and cut off flow for a very limited time with no ill effects.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:19 PM
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LOL My old beast 1981 single axle GMC fuel tanks are connected by a gravity line to equal fuel level in each tank.

I thought he was connecting two sprayer tanks to 1 pump. ????

All of a sudden we're on bulk tank filling stations?

OK maybe it's me that's confused.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:24 PM
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LOL My old beast 1981 single axle GMC fuel tanks are connected by a gravity line to equal fuel level in each tank.

I thought he was connecting two sprayer tanks to 1 pump. ????

All of a sudden we're on bulk tank filling stations?

OK maybe it's me that's confused.
It's a bulk station from what I reread. It might be better if he tells us exactly what he's doing.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:46 PM
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Name:  Filling Station (Small).bmp
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Maybe something on this order?

In high pressure systems I have built I used a throttling valve, in low pressure high volume I have only used a 3 way valve

Last edited by Kubota 8540; 11-21-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:28 PM
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Hey,

Ya sorry should have been more specific about what it is, its a bulk fill station. This is the plumbing idea I have come up with, although i like what you put down having everything off of one tank and just a leveling line between them.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:19 PM
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When building these kind of things, having a lot of stuff (fittings) on hand is a great idea. They seem to change in an instant, even as your screwing the fittings together.

Thought about this today as well as everything that I'll be starting next week. With a high volume low pressure pump all you need to do is use a tee and about a 1" return line. That will allow you to shut off the fill nozzle without dead heading the pump. No throttling valve or pressure relief valve needed. 2" off the pump outlet to a tee w/return 1" line and 1.5" to fill nozzle.

Just like your suction line tee set up, your return line tee should be the same position
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubota 8540 View Post
When building these kind of things, having a lot of stuff (fittings) on hand is a great idea. They seem to change in an instant, even as your screwing the fittings together.

Thought about this today as well as everything that I'll be starting next week. With a high volume low pressure pump all you need to do is use a tee and about a 1" return line. That will allow you to shut off the fill nozzle without dead heading the pump. No throttling valve or pressure relief valve needed. 2" off the pump outlet to a tee w/return 1" line and 1.5" to fill nozzle.

Just like your suction line tee set up, your return line tee should be the same position
We have 5hp Honda pumps that are 20 years old and we dead head them all the time and have never had a problem. I seriously wouldn't even use a return line. As long as the pump is idling when you shut it off there won't be problem and you can always just shut the pump off before you shut the valve off. This is using 2" line. I would use the setup in Jeff's drawing minus the return, that's exactly how ours are set up.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:35 PM
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We have 5hp Honda pumps that are 20 years old and we dead head them all the time and have never had a problem. I seriously wouldn't even use a return line. As long as the pump is idling when you shut it off there won't be problem and you can always just shut the pump off before you shut the valve off. This is using 2" line. I would use the setup in Jeff's drawing minus the return, that's exactly how ours are set up.
True, if you shut off the pump before the nozzle. Having a return line simply reduces any risk, and goes by pump manufacture recommendations.

Mine is a small 1" set up but up to 300 psi. Used what I had laying around. I just remember to shut off the pump first. When another plowsite member was here filling his tank, he did not shut off the pump first, cracked some fittings and I got the brine bath, Ryan

But I still haven't changed mine, just replaced the cracked fittings.

Last edited by Kubota 8540; 11-22-2011 at 09:57 PM.
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