i mean they definitely look like an excellent idea, but i dont understand how they can be that much more. a 16ft that extends up to 22 ft is $19500 from the two closest dealers to me. i mean thats basically 5 grand more than a daniels and i thought the daniels was pretty pricey, let alone this. i can almost get two arctics for the price of one of the horst plows, and from what its looking like, it seems as if everyone loves the arctics because of how clean they scrape/how much less salt they use...
I think it all depends on a guys needs. I wouldn't need a horst plow for all three of our loaders. Most accounts the pusher style works fine for us but I do have a few accounts where being able to windrow would be nice. I guess my last words for you would be dont be afraid to buy arctics. You get your moneys worth. (make sure you have your employees watch the video on how to properly operate them on arctics website.) Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
Nick
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Equipment
- 924H Cat w 14' Arctic
- 924H Cat w 14' Arctic
- 924G Cat w 14' Protech
- L-185 New Holland w snow bucket
- C-190 New Holland w snow bucket
- 310D John Deere Backhoe w snow bucket
- 2002 Chevy 2500 HD Reg Cab w Boss 8-2 V
- 2006 Chevy 1-Ton, Henderson SS V Box Spreader, Boss 9-2 V
Well I'll have two loaders at one site and one at another... I think I might go with one arctic and one Daniels at the same site then one arctic at the other. That sounds like the best way of going. Just so I can see the best of both worlds there and I'm sure I could get my use out of them both at the bigger lot.
But then like I said before, a big factor is price. I can buy 3 arctics for 30,000... 3 Daniels for 45,000 or 3 Horst for 60,000. I think since I'm just trying to try them out for now my best way would be to go with arctics. 30,000 is a huge price difference... That could mean 3 more arctics you know?
I mean, I've always understood the whole spending money to make money faster and more efficiently. But... That's a stretch for those Horst plows hah
i mean they definitely look like an excellent idea, but i dont understand how they can be that much more. a 16ft that extends up to 22 ft is $19500 from the two closest dealers to me. i mean thats basically 5 grand more than a daniels and i thought the daniels was pretty pricey, let alone this. i can almost get two arctics for the price of one of the horst plows, and from what its looking like, it seems as if everyone loves the arctics because of how clean they scrape/how much less salt they use...
Our pricing on the Horst blades is much much different then yours. That is why I suggested you call Jeff at Stewarts. Suffice to say we are under $14 000 blade installed and ready to go to work. I think list price in Canada is about $16 000 so it seems your dealer is a little expensive. JMHO.
Lastly I disagree with some other posters here. IMHO you will need to have two Arctics for each machine. We suffered allot of failures and finally abandoned the product for something with more productivity and better durability. again JMHO!
Our pricing on the Horst blades is much much different then yours. That is why I suggested you call Jeff at Stewarts. Suffice to say we are under $14 000 blade installed and ready to go to work. I think list price in Canada is about $16 000 so it seems your dealer is a little expensive. JMHO.
Lastly I disagree with some other posters here. IMHO you will need to have two Arctics for each machine. We suffered allot of failures and finally abandoned the product for something with more productivity and better durability. again JMHO!
Well then I'll definitely give Stewart's a call if that's the case.
And as far as the arctics failing for you... Were you on gravel with them or very rough pavement? What was actually failing? Could it have been operator error?
The Optimis from Avalanche is a really nice unit. We helped with the testing phase during R&D and believe it does the same job as the Arctic but with much greater durability. We have just aquired a new one for our fleet for the season. I think you will find it priced within a few hundred dollars of the Arctic product.
Well then I'll definitely give Stewart's a call if that's the case.
And as far as the arctics failing for you... Were you on gravel with them or very rough pavement? What was actually failing? Could it have been operator error?
Pavement. I am certain the problem could be called operator error but honestly in our fleet of very close to 100 plows (total) when nothing else old or new was failing with experienced operators we continued to have problems with Arctic products. in the end it wasn't worth it to us and we sold them all ( quite cheap actually) and moved on. They are just to delicate for us around curbs and with any type of ice. Snow? They are fine but we have to strip allot of ice. JMHO.
Just something about plowing at 6 MPH that doesn't work for me. And if you do plow faster, and the plow\pusher fails, it won't be warranted or you will have to jump through hoops to get it warranted.
Well I looked it over but not too sure about it... I'm going to be pushing in very large lots. It almost seems as if the sections on the bottom will start tripping as I'm pushing and not fold back. It's general concept of any spring wearing out so how easy is it to replace these? How often am I going to have to replace them? I know that guy on there was saying that they're high compression springs but they're still springs so they will wear out.
We run push boxes, Daniels Wing plows and have one Horst plow, they all have there place. But the plows I think are much more productive than the boxes. Sometimes it is easier to just windrow the snow instead of bringing all the way down the end of a row. I think the Horst is the best of both worlds but as you said cost does become an issue, we started with the pushers and moved up to the daniels and then found a great deal on the Horst. But we still run pushers they go on the rental machines and the subs loaders. The daniels is a very well built plow that has held up excellent and the Horst has also been very good, I dont have any experience with that brand pushers but I do know that we will not buy any rubber edge pushers and havent in a long time we have all trip edge either daniels or Pro-Tech brands.
Just something about plowing at 6 MPH that doesn't work for me. And if you do plow faster, and the plow\pusher fails, it won't be warranted or you will have to jump through hoops to get it warranted.
That's just me.
Truth to be told, nobody plows at 6 MPH and we all know that. Too make lawyers involved in our work its as simple as that. Its kind of like McDonalds putting " Warning may contain hot coffee" on there coffee cups. Look at any plow, in the manual they all have a speed limit. Here's the BoSS box plow
When transporting, position plow so as not to block vision.
NEVER change blade position when transporting.
NEVER exceed 10 mph when plowing snow.
NEVER exceed 5 mph while changing blade position.
Make sure plow is properly and securely attached before moving vehicle.
Always lower blade when vehicle is not in use.
NEVER ride on Plow System.
NEVER lift persons on Plow System.
NEVER operate on steep inclines.
Operators should always use vehicle seat belts and all other applicable personal
protective equipment while operating plow.
Avalanche, HLA do not even post there info on line.
Here's is Western info
General Instructions
1. Before plowing, make sure you know of any
obstructions hidden beneath the snow such as
bumper stops in parking lots, curbs, sidewalk
edges, shrubs, fences or pipes sticking up
from the ground. If unfamiliar with the area to
be plowed, have someone familiar with the
area point out obstacles.
2. If possible and you have good visibility, plow
during the storm rather than letting snow
accumulate.
3. Do not exceed 10 mph (16 km/h) when
plowing snow.
4. When you are stacking snow, begin raising
the blade as you come close to the stack. This
will let the blade ride up the stack.
To the OP, Arctic is also the largest plowing company in Chicago, we run the same plow as you, we also depend on the same plow as you. On any given a event, we are running over 200 sectional plows. Anyone please tell me of a company that does the same.
I've been a sub for them now for 12 years, I can't say I heard of a speeding problem that cause a warrenty issue, never have.
been on PS forever, never seen a post, a story, just cracks about the 6 MPH sticker (damn Lawyers)
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2012 Western MVP in SS with Black wings...
Just something about plowing at 6 MPH that doesn't work for me. And if you do plow faster, and the plow\pusher fails, it won't be warranted or you will have to jump through hoops to get it warranted.
That's just me.
There is no set speed limit for the Avalanche Optimus pusher or any HLA products. We have worked with both companies extensively to strengthen and improve their products.
The optimus is very tough. We pushed it very hard and even tried some things that 100% would cause failure with "a competitors" feature product snowplow. The optimus passes these tests with flying colours. ie 621 Case loader in third gear (WOT) into an island hitiing repeatibly. Zero broken parts and no failure. As a note our test was just for our own purposes. We do not recommend you try it for yourself.
The 5000 series 12-18 snow wing we bought last year with floating reciever is verry nice and we believe equally durable as the optimus (although we did not try the same test) We used it in an 80 acre office complex with no failures and excellent productivity.
We choose to buy mostly snow wings because we feel it gives us the best of both worlds. Pusher and wing plow with stacking ability. Not much more for us to ask for.....
There is no set speed limit for the Avalanche Optimus pusher or any HLA products. We have worked with both companies extensively to strengthen and improve their products.
The optimus is very tough. We pushed it very hard and even tried some things that 100% would cause failure with "a competitors" feature product snowplow. The optimus passes these tests with flying colours. ie 621 Case loader in third gear (WOT) into an island hitiing repeatibly. Zero broken parts and no failure.
The 5000 series 12-18 snow wing we bought last year with floating reciever is verry nice and we believe equally durable as the optimus (although we did not try the same test) We used it in an 80 acre office complex with no failures and excellent productivity.
We choose to buy mostly snow wings because we feel it gives us the best of both worlds. Pusher and wing plow with stacking ability. Not much more for us to ask for.....
I was referring to your previous brand of pushers that....well, shall we say....failed? And then there was some mention of your operators needing training and going to fast and blah, blah, blah. If you're (Arctic) building something that goes on the front of a 20,000# loader, you dang well better make it strong enough to stand up to 6 MPH.
Hope all is well with you and your dad Vince. I have a certain piece of equipment from you that is serving me very well.
I think it all depends on a guys needs. I wouldn't need a horst plow for all three of our loaders. Most accounts the pusher style works fine for us but I do have a few accounts where being able to windrow would be nice. I guess my last words for you would be dont be afraid to buy arctics. You get your moneys worth. (make sure you have your employees watch the video on how to properly operate them on arctics website.) Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
Nick
Have you actually tried a wing plow before? Hard to know how productive they are without trying them. Arctics lay down more then my high school girlfriend. I could careless how much salt I save when I'm changing rubber blocks in the freezing cold. Last winter didn't test anything out. I have the ld models on 2 12000 lb tractors and I can't wait to see those blades go down the road. We do have an 18 ft Daniels angle plow that is over 10 years old. I will say that it has been basically trouble free. They make a very good product. Horst makes the best product IMO Nd they're local to us so that makes it a simple decision.
Have you actually tried a wing plow before? Hard to know how productive they are without trying them. Arctics lay down more then my high school girlfriend.
Sorry to hear that Dave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD Dave
I could careless how much salt I save when I'm changing rubber blocks in the freezing cold. Last winter didn't test anything out. I have the ld models on 2 12000 lb tractors and I can't wait to see those blades go down the road. We do have an 18 ft Daniels angle plow that is over 10 years old. I will say that it has been basically trouble free. They make a very good product. Horst makes the best product IMO Nd they're local to us so that makes it a simple decision.
Always wondered what your issues were with the Arctics.
Hope all is well with you and your dad Vince. I have a certain piece of equipment from you that is serving me very well.[/QUOTE]
That is great. I like orange and Horst together. Its a really nice combo! Still have about 10 orange but they are the little guys. I am very happy your piece has served you well and has been making you money. Take care and I wish both you and your wife the very best. Good luck this winter.
Have you actually tried a wing plow before? Hard to know how productive they are without trying them. Arctics lay down more then my high school girlfriend.
ahahah
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD Dave
I could careless how much salt I save when I'm changing rubber blocks in the freezing cold. Last winter didn't test anything out.
was this one of the biggest problems you had with them? or is there a lot more to them?
have you also tried the new avalanche plows?
how would you compare them to the arctics if you did?
and as far as the daniels, i think either way i am going to get one of them...thats looking like the best way to go just so id be able to windrow/have shorter runs with whichever box i decide to go with
was this one of the biggest problems you had with them? or is there a lot more to them?
For just about as long as I have visited this site there has been a lot of debate about the pros and cons of the Arctics. Both JD and Dell have posted about broken blocks, as with many others, and also broken, or cracked frames. I think that DD posted a link to his thread regarding his experiences with the Arctics. If not I think you should be able to find it if you search. I can't remember if it was in the Commercial Forum or the Arctic Forum. From what I have seen on this site, most seem to have trouble with the blocks. The "debate seems to stem from the difference of opinion as to how often they break, and the cause of the issue. There seems to be (2) lines of thought. In one camp is those who feel as though the attachment should be able to withstand more of, what they would say is the normal, riggers of the snow removal industry. In the other camp are those who feel that the attachment is well built and any problems that arise are form operator error, abuse,or incorrect technique. There is evidence to support both claims so one could safely assume that there is some truth to both claims. There are also others who admit to some possible short comings but say that the salt savings are worth the trouble. My take (I have not used any of the previously mentioned products) is that there is enough reports of problems, with the Arctics, that one should consider who may be using them, when trying to weigh the durability considerations. That can also be said about any of the snow removal tools that we employ. Furthermore, one must try to consider which source one would place more weight, or trust, in. That is hard to do if you have not spent much time lurking around this site. You will have to use your best judgment based on what you know, and what seems to fit better with what you have had in your experience. This may seem to be a bit of a "politically correct" post but it can be difficult to answer some questions without putting a subjective spin on it. This may not be fair to all concerned parties and, in my case, any opinion that I have formed is not based on first hand use of any of these particular brands. If you want a less "PC" answer you may be better served to PM.
have you also tried the new avalanche plows?
I think DD is the only one here who has used them, and those were prototypes.
how would you compare them to the arctics if you did?
and as far as the daniels, i think either way i am going to get one of them...thats looking like the best way to go just so id be able to windrow/have shorter runs with whichever box i decide to go with
The bottom line is that, when considering durability and longevity, simpler is usually better. Especially if you are having others run the plows. Unfortunately, all of the units in question are not really simple units.
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Jason C
'96 Dodge 2500 CTD (12K# snow plowing beast) w/ Western 8.5' MVP
'00 Ford F350 PSD w/Western 8' straight
'06 Bobcat A300 w/ 100" snow bucket & 8' straight blade
'97 Cat 416C
'06 KTM 525 EXC (doesn't seem to push snow very efficiently but will keep trying)
'04 544J
Dirt related iron
The bottom line is that, when considering durability and longevity, simpler is usually better. Especially if you are having others run the plows. Unfortunately, all of the units in question are not really simple units.
Nice post, and agreed.
I think what Dave and Doug\Vince are getting at is that if there is something out there that does just about as good a job as an Arctic without the issues, why would one use an Arctic?
There are enough things that can\do go wrong in a snowstorm. Having to worry about replacing a block or bending something because your operator went 7 MPH and hit the pile just the wrong way when there are pushers and plows available that won't lose blocks and\or won't bend but you need to use 500# more salt, sort of makes it worthwhile in the end.
I have no idea how long it takes to replace a block, but if you lose a half hour production, how much salt can you apply to cover that half hour? Same goes for twisting a pusher because the operator hit some ice when braking and tweaked it to the point of being unusable.
You can also look at Metal Plessis if you are interested in the Horst. We run a couple of them and are slowly converting our fleet over to them from Horst. They are lighter, Simpler, More reliable and cheaper. Yet do the same thing. If you can find a dealer down your way or close to you I'm sure you can get 3 for less than the Horsts.
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