Got fired today...

[White Gardens]

We have a 12 unit apartment complex (small) that we deal with.

Originally, we had skipped out on any services under 1" until we got the call to keep it at a zero tolerance.

Why???

Only because there is three of the twelve residence with handicaps. And I'm talking full out wheel chair handicaps.

By law, at least in Illinois, handicap access to the building along with the handicap parking spaces must be cleared and accessible 24 hours after a storm.

If an apartment complex doesn't have any handicap residents, they don't care......




...................

[bob ny]

Originally Posted by Buswell Forest

My contracts for logging include a stipulation that the landowner can stop me and send me packing at any time for any reason- but...They must pay me $1000 cash to cover my lost time, effort, and money in setting up the job, planning on it, and the moving costs.
And $1000 is not even close to the actual number, but any more will scare them and they will not sign.
Of course, if they stop me for any negligent actions on my part, the stipulation is not valid...and the state forester needs to side with them in the matter for it to happen.

I think such a stipulation in a snow plow / removal contract is prudent as well...and next year I will have all my accounts sign a simple contract to that effect.

I signed a contract with a logging company I contacted through the yellow pages . The deal was he cut down all standing dead and clean up the fallen trees which amounted to 50 trees the deal was that i would get 25% of the total but split and stacked on my location, This was last spring as soon as he was able to get in after snow melt .He hauled for two weeks ,had crews here from sun up till sundown 4 days . .Put my share in a pile in the woods cut only and never came back , out of bosiness telephone disconected,
no body in the trade knows where he went and he is not working in the area I now have all this firewood in big cuts not split piled down in the woods.wHAT GOOD IS A CONTRACT
BOB W,

[Dogplow Dodge]

Originally Posted by bob ny

......WHAT GOOD IS A CONTRACT


BOB W,

That's easy, Bob.

Contracts are only as good as the person signing them, or the lawyer who's smart enough to get you or them out of it.


A few of my customers are handshake clients. They're generally older, male gentlemen who want what used to be in the old days..... services performed on time, as described and agreed upon with honor. Anyone else I come across gets handed a contract.


Reality is, contracts are only designed to "deter" folks from suing, as if they read the contract, it puts responsibilities upon the parties where it supposed to be. When one of the parties thinks about bailing, or suing, and they remember that they signed a document accepting those terms, they rethink their lawsuit.

From the contractor's perspective, it generally means not much, as when the customer bails out, the contractor usually just moves on to the next job, as it's generally not worth the time, effort, and cost effective to pursue the customer in court. So contracts have their advantages and disadvantages, as we all are aware of.


Personally, I'd love to go back to the "handshake" deals where people performed due to "honor and respect", but I don't think it can happen where I live, or in my lifetime.

[jhenderson9196]

Bob NY. If a deal seems to good to be true ,it prob. is.

[jasonv]

Right, contract is only as good as the parties in it. Now technically, a hand shake IS a contract, by legal definition. The only problem with that kind of contract is proving it. The paper that is signed is NOT a contract, it is PROOF OF a contract.

Now about that pile of cut-but-not-split firewood. At least you've got that. Saved you half the work.

[subsurface]

you cant make a good deal with a bad person

[Dogplow Dodge]

Originally Posted by jasonv

Right, contract is only as good as the parties in it. Now technically, a hand shake IS a contract, by legal definition. The only problem with that kind of contract is proving it. The paper that is signed is NOT a contract, it is PROOF OF a contract.

In NJ only up to $500. Beyond that it could be considered an unenforceable verbal contract.

Originally Posted by jasonv

Now about that pile of cut-but-not-split firewood. At least you've got that. Saved you half the work.

I like your spirit... The glass is half full......

[TehTDK]

Here where I live a verbal contract is just as legally binding as a written one. But proving there is an actual verbal contract and what it intails is generally the problem :P.

Hence why I would record any verbal agreement to prevent any headaches down the road :P

[framer1901]

A 10-12" snowfall that starts at 7am at a resuraunt that opens at 10-11am, probably closes by midnight and you service it six times, plow and salt - holy smokes, I could see the complaint.

Just my opinion here but we'd plow/salt it to get it open, let them have lunch, maybe some quick lane clearing after lunch, plow salt for dinner and maybe some quick lane clearing right after dinner.

I cringe when we plow a fast food joint for the third time in a day and don't think I'd consider a fourth ever.

Here's why:

On a beautiful sunny day, places like this have two peak periods of traffic, lunch 11:30-1:30 and dinner 5-7, same thing on a bad snow day just less traffic. The traffic is down due to the weather, the location is probably losing money to begin with due to less traffic and now you tack on 6 full out snowplowings - they are definetly losing money.

You have to help your customer stay in business, not steal from his cash drawer.

I can keep any parking lot wet and black in any weather but I have to keep my customer in business also and the slip and fall excuse that is so quickly thrown out, it's a snowstorm.

[trustyrusty]

Originally Posted by framer1901

A 10-12" snowfall that starts at 7am at a resuraunt that opens at 10-11am, probably closes by midnight and you service it six times, plow and salt - holy smokes, I could see the complaint.

Just my opinion here but we'd plow/salt it to get it open, let them have lunch, maybe some quick lane clearing after lunch, plow salt for dinner and maybe some quick lane clearing right after dinner.

I cringe when we plow a fast food joint for the third time in a day and don't think I'd consider a fourth ever.

Here's why:

On a beautiful sunny day, places like this have two peak periods of traffic, lunch 11:30-1:30 and dinner 5-7, same thing on a bad snow day just less traffic. The traffic is down due to the weather, the location is probably losing money to begin with due to less traffic and now you tack on 6 full out snowplowings - they are definetly losing money.

You have to help your customer stay in business, not steal from his cash drawer.

I can keep any parking lot wet and black in any weather but I have to keep my customer in business also and the slip and fall excuse that is so quickly thrown out, it's a snowstorm.

In case you missed it, this was apartments, not fast food; this was walks, not plowing, and we have not serviced (shovelled and/or deiced) more than twice per day, once at 7 am when people are leaving for work and once at 5 pm when they are returning, IF there is snowfall during the day. Also we don't get 10-12" snows here, more like 2-4" snows are more common. Two of the three have a number of very handicapped residents, from totally blind (walks with cane) to totally wheelchair bound and one 28 year old girl who walks very haltingly after being severely maimed from being in multiple tragic auto accidents over the course of about 3-4 years. She's even been in the news. Long story short I feel honest about what we agreed to, the service we performed, and the service their property needs.

[framer1901]

I was refering to a post earlier on this one, someone said they plowed a pizza hut six times in one day.

I agree totally about making apartments safe to leave in the AM and safe on the return in the evening, makes perfect sense. I agree with shoveling the 1/2" wet snow, 1/2" of dry is extreme but the wet stuff needs to go. Something changed at that place, something like the management somewhere down the line or cash flow maybe even just a misunderstanding. It seems that no matter how hard you work, you still run across these things every now and then, I'd try to work with them open minded as best you can and see where it goes. The one thing, if it's been a long term customer, I'd be working real hard and close with them to get the wrinkles out so they want to keep being a customer in the years to come - people seem to forget the 100 good things you did and only remember the one not so good thing.

[Spool it up]

Originally Posted by trustyrusty

Got fired today from three accounts for doing too good of a job. All are smaller apartment complexes, two with lots of walks and one plow only with a 3" trigger. We have a zero tolerance policy on walks and keep our walks totally clear at all times. We have been having a lot of little 1/2" overnight snows that find us clearing walks. We have only plowed once at two of these places and twice at the other.

Today the supervisor at the management company in a city hours from here sent an email to the local manager that we were no longer needed. The reason? They are over budget. Snow removal of both walks and parking areas is now the responsibility of the manager (a lady) and the maintenance man with the equipment provided by the company, namely shovels.

At the start of the season we sent a quote and service agreement and it was returned signed by the same supervisor that cancelled us. I feel we did exactly what we agreed to do and no more. I do not feel like we over-serviced the properties at all so that part doesn't concern me.

The local manager is very unhappy. I asked if there was any complaints about our service and she said no, service was top-notch. She said that our cancellation would probably be annulled as soon as we got another decent storm.

I told her service would continue as per agreement until I received notice of cancellation in writing specifically naming all three properties.

Ironically, one of these locations has a resident who has asked us why we do the sidewalks but leave the parking lot such a mess. We told him they are on a 3" trigger so small accumulations just turn to ice. He said "Somebody's gonna pay big if one of us falls out here." In other words he struck us as a entitlement "user" just waiting for his chance. I think this move might bite them in the arse but that's a lesson they'll have to learn the hard way.

Lucky for us it was our least favorite accounts.

what is your total snow accumulation there ?

[trustyrusty]

Don't know. There's probably only 3-4" on the level right now as we had very high winds for several days while it was snowing and we have places with bare patches in the fields and 4' drifts in others. Really no way to know. I got some pics in the storm pictures forum in a thread titled "Sideways snow".

[andcon83]

Originally Posted by Dogplow Dodge

A few of my customers are handshake clients. They're generally older, male gentlemen who want what used to be in the old days..... services performed on time, as described and agreed upon with honor.

the only way to do business

[Spool it up]

Originally Posted by trustyrusty

Don't know. There's probably only 3-4" on the level right now as we had very high winds for several days while it was snowing and we have places with bare patches in the fields and 4' drifts in others. Really no way to know. I got some pics in the storm pictures forum in a thread titled "Sideways snow".

ever use noah website to see your storm totals ?

[trustyrusty]

Originally Posted by Spool it up

ever use noah website to see your storm totals ?

The closest NOAA monitoring station is almost 30 miles away and in this area 30 miles makes a big difference. NOAA is never accurate for our exact location.

[04hd]

The dentist that I plow is 1 inch and keep it clean as possible. Salt whenever I see fit. Like he said a couple extra bag of salt is way cheaper then an injured person.I dont have a ton of accounts but the ones I have are great.

[JimMarshall]

Originally Posted by Ramairfreak98ss

Yeah we added cancellation costs, since its all too possible to go out, quote, get the job, sign all paperwork, pay $200-400 for their insurance requirements to send additional verbage for adding additional insured etc. for snow work, then staking out the place, photos and a property report... Two salts later and you salt too often so we're cancelling or whatever..

or the first snow storm of the year they don't like something and your out. I hate to bind anyone to a long term contract but its like cell phones, the termination cost is because you bought the phone at a discounted rate.. most of the time at least.

You pay to have insurance info sent out??????

[RLM]

Originally Posted by JimMarshall

You pay to have insurance info sent out??????

We do to $ 50 per additional insured, or we could purchase a blanket additional but that's more than adding the ones we have.

[JimMarshall]

We must pay for a blanket, I haven't changed insurance at all since I took over, and thats been several years. Never paid for additional insured.