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  #21  
Old 09-18-2013, 09:54 PM
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snoway63 snoway63 is offline
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Setauket, Medford on Long Island
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  #22  
Old 09-19-2013, 09:23 AM
ProEnterprises ProEnterprises is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoway63 View Post
Setauket, Medford on Long Island
Sorry, I meant what sites have they been calling you to do?
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:50 PM
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Targets Stores on Long Island but what they want to pay isn't worth getting out of bed for, its a quarter of what I would bid it for,this is why they had an issue last year around here they get someone to do it for nothing then you get one big storm and they know they will lose there shirt and don't get the job done.
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  #24  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:45 PM
jmoriweb jmoriweb is offline
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I would not do any business with them. Had some good contracts with them many years ago and they still owe me thousands. Also, a bunch of them the client sold the business and cancelled the contract but my rate was seasonal so needless to say, I even lost the additional money for the balance of the season.
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  #25  
Old 09-20-2013, 09:27 PM
northernsweeper northernsweeper is offline
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They offered to sweep a large retailer for 1/3 of what my price was. I had been given the job. Then they came in at their low price and the job was given to them for weekly sweeps. No one swept the lot all summer. Go figure.
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  #26  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:00 AM
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Advantage Advantage is offline
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I thought Brinkman had the snow for Targets. Maybe just this area?
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  #27  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:11 AM
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hatefulmechanic hatefulmechanic is offline
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Brinkman lost the Targets for snow, and best I can tell the landscaping and sweeping as well.

I have been a "vendor partner" for F&S for 4 years, and while they typically lowball the initial scope pricing, they are (in my instances) on track for being average rate for the contracts. Pay is consistently 45 days from invoice, as long as your invoicing is done in a timely manner (I do all of mine early and email them so we get it there early)and their insurance requirements are fairly high, but my coverage is already in the range because I subcontract plow for the state dept. of transportation.

Most of the complaints I have heard from people with F&S is dual fault, I have had one issue where I was not paid for an invoice in 90 days, turned out to be a fuckup from a filing error when they moved an account rep around, and once I put in an email to my account rep I had a check in 4 days.

They move people around a LOT, mostly because they are really increasing in size lately. They have literally tripled in size in 2 years, picking up a lot of contracts. Most national companies are switching around all the time, and it is a shell game to keep up with them, Brickman gets it for a while, F&S gets it for a while, then they switch to someone else. Hard to get a good client retention for service vs. price, but if ya stay on top of the market and game you can make some good money.
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  #28  
Old 09-26-2013, 11:28 AM
Ne1 Ne1 is offline
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My opinion on national providers has always been why go out and make them money. Let these huge nationals go out and buy there own equipment etc.. and maybe then they would see what it really takes to service these sites.
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  #29  
Old 09-27-2013, 08:50 AM
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F&Sons ... big time low ballers and they write a contract with so many options NOT to pay it is not even funny. The only contractors who take it are the dumb, beer money guys. Terrible jobs in every case I've seen.

Just the cost of a salt is not even covered by their yearly all in pricing.

We had been contacted by them many times. I worked the numbers every way I could. Tried to hope winter would not even hit .... but for 8-12k for a super target for an all in season price. Can't even buy the salt.

Wither the pay or not I have no idea ... contract stinks.

As for companies not caring ... yes they care. However, many have NO choice but to use their corporate buying expert who is usually located somewhere else and has no clue. With this economy ... they will low ball every time and hope against issues.
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  #30  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:52 PM
snowbrothers101 snowbrothers101 is offline
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Companies like Brickman (Billion dollar plus) and USM/Emcor ($6 billion plus) are the massive players in this field. COmpanies like Ferrandino, Divisions Inc. ,etc are just minor players compared to them. Regardless, at the end of the day, the programs must work because most of our work for any retailer goes througha national. it is what it is so just move on and take what works for you.
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  #31  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:42 PM
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To be clear .... it's not about F&Sons. It is about plowers being taken by bad contracts and the lack of personal responsibility. Not to mention when these practices are allowed to happen the bad-blood affect gets reflected through insurance, value, perception of a plower. You allow low ballers to hack a job, stuff happens. Eventually it happens enough and all suffer.

If your happy with a national account - great. Few are for very long as the pain rests on your shoulders.
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  #32  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:54 PM
Ne1 Ne1 is offline
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That's a good point about the contracts. They want the local guy who's doing the work to assume all liability while they sit back in there corporate offices collecting all the money. As long as there's subs willing to put there equipment and people on these sites these nationals will continue to thrive.
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  #33  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:39 PM
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hatefulmechanic hatefulmechanic is offline
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Ya know, I have yet to see any scope or contract that has the stuff these people who complain about Nationals having as requirements.

Do I have to have liability insurance for an incident on a site that I maintain? Sure. I carry a policy that covers their requirements, and then some, build it into my CODB and go on about my business.

Sure, they lowball on some, are higher on others, and in the end it is up to you to negotiate a rate where everyone can make it work, or you walk away. Simple as that. I have passed on a few sites they have because the customer is a very picky one who wants something done out of scope but I have learned and do not do those anymore.

There are pros and cons to larger companies handling this stuff. If ya can't make it work, then pass on it and go on to something that makes you money. Simple as that.
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Sagebrush Property Management
Division of OFCD LLC

'91 F250 9' Fisher Myers spreader"FrankenPlow"
'78 Bruin 6-71T 12' blade Henderson 6yd spreader
'07 Cat 252b 8' Myers
'68 Commercial 10 Gravely MA210 blower
'81 855 Gravely 3' blade
'56 L Model Gravely 3' blade
Crapload of Mexicans with shovels

SWVA distributor of Switch N Go
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2013, 10:41 AM
northernsweeper northernsweeper is offline
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Brickman still has Targets snow in Northern Mn.
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  #35  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:05 PM
Ramairfreak98ss Ramairfreak98ss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
Got a call from them today wanting a contractor ASAP for the local Target. I humored them and said go ahead and email me the scope of work. With it was their proposed budget. I almost crapped myself. Long story short...$12,680 for the season. I know the lot well because we shop there often. Without measuring I'd say its about 160-200k sq ft. Cart corrals, sidewalks, etc. Plain crazy. I can swing through 2 of my doctor offices with a plow/salt event and make more than what they're paying. I guess that explains why I've seen a new company in there every season since it was built (4years ago.)
Targets are tough... we had a couple a few years back, 4 actually, and stopped doing them because they just were very time consuming and the rates wern't good.

$12.6k isn't even worth the liability for the season.
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