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  #41  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:44 PM
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alldayrj alldayrj is offline
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cash for new stuff has depreciation still. but theres a time and place for everything. I think for most people good quality used paid for with cash is the best way to go but obviously every situation is unique
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  #42  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:53 PM
ducaticorse ducaticorse is offline
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Originally Posted by jmac5058 View Post
What if you make enough to pay cash for new trucks is that stupid ? Theres nothing better with old stuff compaired to new. When my wife hit 40 I traded her in for two 20s
Perhaps not stupid, but I could think of several different better ways to make that cash work for me rather than buying new trucks. And the whole profit margin still comes into play regardless of whether you pay cash or mortgage your trucks. You still have that $40K nut to crack before you become profitable. Youre ins rates are higher because your property is worth triple what a used truck is. You need to factor all this into your books. Asking this question kind of confirms what another gentleman made a point of not four posts earlier. There is a big misconception as to how to run a profitable business around here.....
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  #43  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:44 PM
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trustyrusty trustyrusty is offline
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Originally Posted by ducaticorse View Post
Most excellent. I would love to hear some of the "pros" on here take a run at this.. Thank you for taking the time to write out an intelligent, well thought out response.
Don't get me wrong. I definitely know there are some guys who can justify new stuff. We started out as a sidewalk only company. Then because of customer demand we bought and old used plow truck, thus my username. As time has progressed we are filling our portfolio with more, bigger, and better jobs, and efficiency becomes paramount. We have started buying newer plows, but putting them on not-so-new trucks. One day, no doubt, our overall business model (resale value, tax equations, professional appearance, etc.) will demand moderate, businesslike new trucks, and if we put plows on them we will end up with new trucks and plows.

My point is that everyone has their own scenario, and old or new, guys should buy what their business realistically needs, not what they want. If I decided to build houses for a living and I thought that a real contractor has to have a secretary, an office with a showroom, a new pickup, etc., and I expected everyone to bring their price up to where I was profitable but able to compete, I'm afraid I'd get hungry fast. Also I would get nowhere telling all the other contractors who worked out of their homes and drove used stuff and did their own clerical work that they were handy-hacks. The most important thing I was trying to say, though, is that to judge someone as a lowballer just because he drives an older plow truck is narrow-minded at best. The real businessmen who know their numbers and are running a successful business running new equipment are generally not the ones whining about the lowballers who drive older trucks. They are comfortable with their ability to compete and they hold their edge.
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  #44  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:07 AM
TGS Inc. TGS Inc. is online now
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One of our latest salt rigs...

Here is a CL gem. Picked up this V-10 Dodge duelly for $ 1750.00 (my salter).

:-)
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  #45  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:18 AM
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MatthewG MatthewG is offline
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Don't forget new equipment comes with a depreciation schedule. Your choice, pay tax to the government or buy new and pay less tax to the government.

Note. Nothing I own was new other than salt spreaders and plows.
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  #46  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:28 AM
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Wilnip Wilnip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
Don't forget new equipment comes with a depreciation schedule. Your choice, pay tax to the government or buy new and pay less tax to the government.

Note. Nothing I own was new other than salt spreaders and plows.
You can depreciate used stuff as well. But the guy who bought that new truck looses more in value than you save in a tax credit. IMO.
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  #47  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:28 PM
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2COR517 2COR517 is offline
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You can depreciate used stuff as well. But the guy who bought that new truck looses more in value than you save in a tax credit. IMO.
Agreed....
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As for your question, the only thing you missed is him answering the question you posed and him completely ignoring the fact that he didn't answer it. .

When you hear hoofbeats look for horses, not zebras.
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  #48  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:29 PM
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2COR517 2COR517 is offline
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Originally Posted by TGS Inc. View Post
Here is a CL gem. Picked up this V-10 Dodge duelly for $ 1750.00 (my salter).

:-)
Does that truck fight alot?
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Truck has engine, transmission, transfer case. Tires on rims bolted to axles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfd9
As for your question, the only thing you missed is him answering the question you posed and him completely ignoring the fact that he didn't answer it. .

When you hear hoofbeats look for horses, not zebras.
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  #49  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:49 PM
TGS Inc. TGS Inc. is online now
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Does that truck fight alot?

HA!! It's always "On guard" during inclement weather.... :-0


-Wayne
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  #50  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:10 PM
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2COR517 2COR517 is offline
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Oooops........
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Truck has engine, transmission, transfer case. Tires on rims bolted to axles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfd9
As for your question, the only thing you missed is him answering the question you posed and him completely ignoring the fact that he didn't answer it. .

When you hear hoofbeats look for horses, not zebras.

Last edited by 2COR517; 11-16-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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  #51  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
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Mr.Markus Mr.Markus is offline
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What if your new stuff is old........ depreciation works on both IMO. By the time I'm done with a truck there is no value left in it but by then it has surpassed it's purchase price many times over even though I buy them new.
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  #52  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:38 PM
linckeil linckeil is offline
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it boils down to one simple equation:

profit = revenue - expenses.

maximize the first, minimize the second.

i run an older truck, but keep my revenue just as high as they guy with the $700 monthly payment on his truck.

my expenses are low as i do the work myself and working on cars is a hobby of mine. i enjoy it and it saves me tons of cash. win-win for me.... i am all about preventative maintance. i have had only 2 breakdowns in the 17 years i've been plowing - and those were in my early years. it's probably been a good 12 years or so since any breakdowns and my truck sees 50 driveways each storm.

people think a brand new truck is not suseptible to a breakdown, but sh!t happens. i've seen it many times.

the rusted beater with the bent frame and cracked headlight probably does belong to a low baller, but if he posses a threat to your business, you better consider another line of work.

the jealously comment is absurd. in fact, i bet the guy with the fat payment who is just scraping by is jealous of my profit margins being exponentially higher than his... if he's not, then he's out there to "look" cool, not make money.
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  #53  
Old 11-17-2012, 07:44 PM
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jrs.landscaping jrs.landscaping is online now
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I run older trucks/equip. There is a life expectancy though, because I hate running tired iron and turning wrenches when I should be pushing snow.
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  #54  
Old 11-18-2012, 04:57 PM
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Nothing wrong with running older iron. You can make good money with paid for rigs. I myself upgrade a plow, truck or loader approximately every 5 years.
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  #55  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:34 PM
gtstang462002 gtstang462002 is offline
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I owe money on the truck that I drive/push with, The rest of my equipment is '05 or older. I also pay operators to run said equipment and maintain a profit margin. I am not overly concerned with the comfort factor of my operators as I pay them well and they come back season after season. That being said, I will not be buying another truck once this one is paid for (unless it gets wrecked beyond repair or some other disaster becomes of it) as it will always be cheaper to fix it. It does help that I do my own repairs as I spent a few years working for the local ford dealer as a diesel/truck transmission specialist to keep repair costs reasonable.

On a side note, I only owe money on my truck and house. Once each one is paid off respectively we will not be making any other purchases based on what a bank believes they can loan me, it will be based on what our checking account says we can afford outright after all of the bills are paid.
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  #56  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:21 PM
BigBoyPlowin BigBoyPlowin is offline
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When you have $150K + accounts relying on YOU I would not advise that.

We bought a 96 GMC Kodiak for salting one year supposedly it a good deal at 6K and the sucker didnt even start when we needed it one night. Do you know how hard it is to tell a property manager of 3 Condo complexes that your #1 Rock salt spreader isnt starting and the Mechanic is in Florida.... Yeah that night i was Crapping my pants. So from now on we havent bought any older plow/ salt trucks...

Now I do have a few beater sidewalk crew trucks but those we have backups for... so its not a problem.
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  #57  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:54 PM
ducaticorse ducaticorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyPlowin View Post
When you have $150K + accounts relying on YOU I would not advise that.

We bought a 96 GMC Kodiak for salting one year supposedly it a good deal at 6K and the sucker didnt even start when we needed it one night. Do you know how hard it is to tell a property manager of 3 Condo complexes that your #1 Rock salt spreader isnt starting and the Mechanic is in Florida.... Yeah that night i was Crapping my pants. So from now on we havent bought any older plow/ salt trucks...

Now I do have a few beater sidewalk crew trucks but those we have backups for... so its not a problem.
So what, the dealer warranty on your new trucks does the explaining to your contracts when they break down?

Ive seen plenty of new trucks **** the bed for numerous reasons. And if you're not keeping your equipment well maintained and in good operating condition, that's on you and no warranty is going to help you there....
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  #58  
Old 11-22-2012, 04:18 PM
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Italiano67 Italiano67 is offline
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You can maintain them as well as you can and still have problems. Maintaining them doesnt mean a problem cant crop up and shut you down. It is almost laughable what can go wrong and does go wrong in the middle of the night with equipment. Not to mention the way prices are for doing commercial work it just doesnt pay most of the time to have have new trucks if you dont have summer time use for them.
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  #59  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:37 PM
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JD Dave JD Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyPlowin View Post
When you have $150K + accounts relying on YOU I would not advise that.

We bought a 96 GMC Kodiak for salting one year supposedly it a good deal at 6K and the sucker didnt even start when we needed it one night. Do you know how hard it is to tell a property manager of 3 Condo complexes that your #1 Rock salt spreader isnt starting and the Mechanic is in Florida.... Yeah that night i was Crapping my pants. So from now on we havent bought any older plow/ salt trucks...

Now I do have a few beater sidewalk crew trucks but those we have backups for... so its not a problem.
New or used you still have to have a backup plan. Excuses are just that and they aren't exceptable.
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There will be an all knowing young kid to say otherwise but trust me, you dont want to run these with a vbox
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  #60  
Old 11-22-2012, 08:49 PM
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New or used you still have to have a backup plan. Excuses are just that and they aren't exceptable.
Dave is exactly correct on this....and I'm as guilty as anyone, and it costs me. Last season my primary V box salter got damaged. I had to hire a sub in cost me about $ 50/ton over my cost plus they used twice the salt I would have. The kick in the butt is I have another V box sitting in my shop.....with a frozen chain or motor. I could have switched them out (salters both Smith electrics) in minutes.....but the if its broke it doesn't help. For what it cost for the sub, would have paid for it self.
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