bidding with two companies - PlowSite.com™

ProTouchGrounds · #1 08-27-2012, 07:42 AM

we have just had the opportunity to acquire another landscaping/snow company. Name, phone, po box and all. I was just wondering if there are any legal issues of bidding a job with both companies separate. I am planning on keeping the two separate for now. I know this sounds a bit shady but I am tired of losing bids to contractors that the turn around and do not perform the job to the specs outlined. I notify the agent in charge and most often they dont care. My idea is to bid on the higher end of our pricing structure with one company and a bit more modestly with my other company. What are your thoughts.

grandview · #2 08-27-2012, 11:41 AM

High bid low bid,sounds good. Use the company that you bought this way when you close it down they will be forgotten and you'll have a bigger presents.

ProTouchGrounds · #3 08-27-2012, 11:50 AM

thats the plan GV! Im keeping them around for a bit so its not a shock to their clients as they are in an uppity area that likes to keep business in the community. When they get used to seeing our guys/equipment for awhile then I can consolidate.

grandview · #4 08-27-2012, 11:56 AM

Then next season you can send a letter out saying how you bought out the other company last year but your company was servicing their property.Or something to that effect.

second income · #5 08-28-2012, 10:04 PM

That is called collusion and it is highly unethical and illegal in most jurisdictions.

mulcahy mowing · #6 08-29-2012, 04:02 PM

I don't see how that is collusion as long as he does not own more than 50% of both outfits. Ie he owns 51% of one company and his wife/children/partner owns 51% of the other. That happens all the time and it's called smart business.

JohnnyRoyale · #7 08-29-2012, 04:12 PM

No brainer...Just do it and dont advertise you do it.
Two seperate companies, two different addresses, two different contacts.
You're just making your company look better in the bid process.
A little dirty, but not quite collusion IMO. happens all the time.

Whats worse? What he's proposing to do or paying off a Property Manager?

dfd9 · #8 08-29-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by second income

That is called collusion and it is highly unethical and illegal in most jurisdictions.

I would disagree.

Just perform a higher level of service if the higher priced company wins and vice versa.

grandview · #9 08-29-2012, 04:47 PM

Besides collusion would be between 2 or more companies and the owner doesn't have any of choice. Kind of like the Boss dealers in my area.

TCLA · #10 08-29-2012, 04:55 PM

Technically collusion is an agreement between two or more parties. In actuality he is the only party...but there are two different entities involved.

Close call.

I'm willing to bet that if your prospective clients found out they would not be very happy with you at all. You would have some splaining to do....

From their prospective you could have just given them two different prices based on two different levels of service.

basher · #11 08-29-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLA

Technically collusion is an agreement between two or more parties. In actuality he is the only party.. falsely representing himself as two different unrelated parties, that right there constitutes fraud.,

.but there are two different entities involved.

Close call.

IMO not that close. there is no competitiveness in the bidding process and customer deception takes place obviously if he owns both companies one of those prices is artificially inflated to assure the desired company received the contract.

I'm willing to bet that if your prospective clients found out they would not be very happy with you at all. You would have some splaining to do....

If I found someone had done that to me I'd be talking to the AG's office just on principle. Particularly if i was advertising for competitive bids.

From their prospective you could have just given them two different prices based on two different levels of service.

But a bid by definition is a price based on the level of service outlined in the bid request. IMO the only way it would be legal/moral would be if the two were totally independent with separate management and had no knowledge of one another's pricing structures

grandview · #12 08-29-2012, 06:13 PM

Shi!ts and giggles here, lets say you own a company and you buy out another company and put it in your wife name. Now if she is a certified WOSB and the place your both bidding on has the same bid specs,but the company gives preference to wosb plus a premium on the winning bid and wins but the husband does the work ,The same thing? yes or no?

basher · #13 08-29-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandview

Shi!ts and giggles here, lets say you own a company and you buy out another company and put it in your wife name. Now if she is a certified WOSB and the place your both bidding on has the same bid specs,but the company gives preference to wosb plus a premium on the winning bid and wins but the husband does the work ,The same thing? yes or no?

The Feds smacked a couple big local construction companies hard for playing a very similar game here locally. Setting up their own "minority owned" companies that then "subbed" the work back to them. They changed some of the rules on meeting MOB status based on the case.

TCLA · #14 08-29-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basher

But a bid by definition is a price based on the level of service outlined in the bid request.

I think there are just as many clients that don't really know what they want or need, as there are those who have a good handle on what they want with firm specs.

Options and different levels of service can give you better odds.

thelettuceman · #15 08-30-2012, 08:25 PM

ProTouchGrounds: I would agree to put in a higher bid and a lower bid based on service level. I have worked part time in the catering business for the past 41 years. One owner / two companies / one does high end catering / one does low end catering. The owner has never been in legal trouble.

basher · #16 08-31-2012, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelettuceman

ProTouchGrounds: I would agree to put in a higher bid and a lower bid based on service level. I have worked part time in the catering business for the past 41 years. One owner / two companies / one does high end catering / one does low end catering. The owner has never been in legal trouble.

But he is not placing competitive bids. having two companies offering different levels of service is far different than two companies bidding the same job to the same specification.

2COR517 · #17 08-31-2012, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTouchGrounds

we have just had the opportunity to acquire another landscaping/snow company. Name, phone, po box and all. I was just wondering if there are any legal issues of bidding a job with both companies separate. I am planning on keeping the two separate for now. I know this sounds a bit shady but I am tired of losing bids to contractors that the turn around and do not perform the job to the specs outlined. I notify the agent in charge and most often they dont care. My idea is to bid on the higher end of our pricing structure with one company and a bit more modestly with my other company. What are your thoughts.

Submitting a dozen bids doesn't prevent Joe Snow from doing poor work when he still gets the job with the lowest bid. And you're still underbidding yourself, acknowledging you can do the job for less money.
I hope that company you bought came with some existing contracts. Otherwise you just bought some equipment.

second income · #18 08-31-2012, 07:54 AM

I am surprised to here on this site what some people think is legal and ethical to do. Everybody slams nationals and rightfully so but what I have read in some of the above posts is pretty shameful. Trying to be slick lands most guys in trouble!