Is this a good rate?

[DodgeBlizzard]

I'm confused. Your original bid was $13,500 for plowing only. Now you have to puchase and apply salt and your total bid is now $15,500? $13,500 divided by $15,500 = 13% increase to salt. Where in central Pa are you located? We had a pile of plowable events last year.

[superdog1]

Originally Posted by DodgeBlizzard

I'm confused. Your original bid was $13,500 for plowing only. Now you have to puchase and apply salt and your total bid is now $15,500? $13,500 divided by $15,500 = 13% increase to salt. Where in central Pa are you located? We had a pile of plowable events last year.

I live in Lebanon. I have no employees and after I did the math, the extra $2000 should cover the salt I need for this location. Out of all of the other accounts we did last year, 2 of them added up are larger than this lot. We only used 4 pallets of salt to do both of them, so I added up the price of 4 pallets and then 3 extra just in case we get hit hard. That gives me a total of 17,150 pds of salt. I can buy that amount of salt for $1400. We have tailgate spreaders, so there is really no extra labor to apply the salt.

In the last few years, we have been averaging 18 events per year, so if you divide the amount we are being paid and subtract the salt, then divide that # by 18 events, it works out to $783.00 per push. Divide that again by 6 hours to do the lot on average and you get $130.00 per hour to do this job. Obviously you have to subtract fuel costs and other things like wear and tear on the trucks etc., but it still adds up to a decent # for our time.

We are making $$ with these #'s.

[TPC Services]

Originally Posted by superdog1

I live in Lebanon. I have no employees and after I did the math, the extra $2000 should cover the salt I need for this location. Out of all of the other accounts we did last year, 2 of them added up are larger than this lot. We only used 4 pallets of salt to do both of them, so I added up the price of 4 pallets and then 3 extra just in case we get hit hard. That gives me a total of 17,150 pds of salt. I can buy that amount of salt for $1400. We have tailgate spreaders, so there is really no extra labor to apply the salt.

In the last few years, we have been averaging 18 events per year, so if you divide the amount we are being paid and subtract the salt, then divide that # by 18 events, it works out to $783.00 per push. Divide that again by 6 hours to do the lot on average and you get $130.00 per hour to do this job. Obviously you have to subtract fuel costs and other things like wear and tear on the trucks etc., but it still adds up to a decent # for our time.

We are making $$ with these #'s.

I hope you have a great slip an fall insurance. No extra cost to apply salt ???? you have the piece of equipment that spreads the SALT!!! and the labor to keep refilling it !!!! sorry I was on your page until you said you have 18 plowable events not counting frezzing rain or sleet events because I saw nothing in there about that. and that you are fine only making $600-800 before the deduction of labor and wear and tear of that equipment on salting. so to you happy lowballing!!!! that lot is way low on priced. have fun not paying for your equipment or want to upgrade it

All I have is this to those prices

[superdog1]

Originally Posted by TPC Services

I hope you have a great slip an fall insurance.

It is in my GL policy

Originally Posted by TPC Services

No extra cost to apply salt ???? you have the piece of equipment that spreads the SALT!!!

Yep, and the last pass I make with each push, I will hit the bottun and turn the spreader on

Originally Posted by TPC Services

and the labor to keep refilling it !!!!

It takes me 5 mins. to cut open the bags and dump them.

Originally Posted by TPC Services

sorry I was on your page until you said you have 18 plowable events not counting frezzing rain or sleet events because I saw nothing in there about that.

We are only responsible to salt during overnight events. Once the store opens for business, it is their responsibility to keep the lot and walks ice free. We then take over after normal business hours.

Originally Posted by TPC Services

and that you are fine only making $600-800 before the deduction of labor and wear and tear of that equipment on salting. so to you happy lowballing!!!!

I am happy with the amount of $$ I am making. This is a LOT like going to Vegas. If I have a mild winter, I laugh all the way to the bank. If it is a bad one, well then I guess I eat my last sentence?

Originally Posted by TPC Services

that lot is way low on priced. have fun not paying for your equipment or want to upgrade it

All I have is this to those prices

My equipment is paid for? it does the job, so why do I need to upgrade?. I am sorry if you think I am low balling? I know what I can and can not work for and be ahead. Even with a bigger than normal amount of snowfall this year, I still end up with a few $$ in the bank and I have stayed busy. It is more than some of my competitors are doing. Most of them are selling their stuff?

[ConnerM]

Yep that threads mine. I was just seeing if it is still worth doing the work at 50 around here 60 is the normal rate and usually a little more if your good and have a good reputation and for subs who plow and salt it usually add another 10 bucks an hour at least im just not interested in salting. With the other thread i was hoping to get other peoples Numbers and what they figured they made working at 50 an hour.

[Italiano67]

I wish I could find subs to salt for an extra ten bucks an hour. If you can show me how that pencils out with a profit for the sub you need a job as a creative accountant.

[superdog1]

Ok then, I guess we can all agree that you guys are just smarter than I am, OR, that you need more $$ than what I am getting to survive. I am happy with it, I am going to make $$ with it and I am going to put food on my table at the price I bid it at. It will keep me working until Spring, when I can go back to my real bread and butter.

[mpgall26]

Now it's a money maker, cash in on the de-ice. 6+ acres is big and the price should be to. Don't forget what TCP was saying your gonna dump an ass load of product there regardless of inches of snow. I'll trust your right, but that snowfall sounds low.

[mpgall26]

"BAGS" of product ??
NOAA snowfall totals for PA.
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/ctp/features....php?tab=norms

[mpgall26]

I think everyone just wants to see you do well and not lose your shirt. Be careful, thats all. That is a very cheap bid regardless of where it is.
Unless it's "Vegas"

[jklawn&Plow]

You should always figure some amount in the price for depreciation of your equipment. This covers repairs and replacement down the road (even if its 10 years out). 5 Minutes for a palet of salt. Don't forget the gas to get it, the depreciation of the truck to get, your time to get it, if your doing it in 5 minutes I'd charge a high $$$/hr wage for "heavy exertion work" that way if you bust ass on every job you get compensated fairly. Could be you have all this covered just didn't read it.

[TPC Services]

No not smarter then you bud just trying to make sure your see the bigger picture and have many years doing this. Also I’m just not seeing how you can be making money with your salting, just trying to figure out your reasoning on this and making sure you understand the risk in it. Your making money when you turn around and turn the sander on blows my mine. So your salting the same time your plowing ?? what about trail off from the snow your pushing . Also most sanders spread 15'-30', a plow clears a little less then what that size os plow is when angled!! Umm how many times are you having to reload your spreader speedy 5 mins adds up… on average the biggest tailgate spread will hold around 800LBS that’s at least 16 bags, your that fast on opening bags ?? you must have a lot of Caffeine in you (LOL) JK

You better make sure your Insurance agent know that the client will maintain the property during regular business yours . normally in a slip in fall insurance policy your all in or not! Make sure you lave a lock tight contract stating that you are not reasonable for normal business hours salting or de icing What if they can’t keep up or something breaks and they call you do you have extra figured in for that? Or in your contract that it will be a extra cost?

Season is a lot like going to Vegas or Wall Street. But if you put in the proper measures to minimize your loss’s your going to be better off hints CAPS on trips or snow fall amounts.
It doenst matter if its paid for or not you still need to put money away for maintenance!! And your telling me your doing to plow for 20 years with the same truck and plow or sanders??

Most of your so call Competitors are closing up because one of three things!
1) They are getting low ball by people that do not understand the end and outs of this industry most are in it to subsides their pockets books.
2) They may have over priced themselves right out of the market.
3) They are providing a poor quality service to their clients.

Sorry about the mean post but we are trying to get through to you that you are low on this bid. We may not change your mind but we are at least trying to make sure you are thinking of every aspect there is to think about in this Industry!!

[superdog1]

Originally Posted by TPC Services

Sorry about the mean post but we are trying to get through to you that you are low on this bid. We may not change your mind but we are at least trying to make sure you are thinking of every aspect there is to think about in this Industry!!

It is OK. I am fairly new to this game. I just took what we did last year based on square footage and the amount of salt we used and compared it to this location and did the math. I don't want to lowball, but I also want to eat. I guess I really don't see salting as a big deal. IMHO, salting is the least labor intensive thing we do?. It only takes a few minutes to load the hopper and drive up and down the isles?

[ConnerM]

Originally Posted by Italiano67

I wish I could find subs to salt for an extra ten bucks an hour. If you can show me how that pencils out with a profit for the sub you need a job as a creative accountant.

Im sayin at least an extra 10 bucks an hour if u just do side walks

[superdog1]

I thought I would re-open this thread to let everyone know how I made out? I took the job. I only had 1 plow-able event. Yep, that's right, only 1 event that came in at 7"!!!!!!! I had 5 ice events that were very mild and I ended up using 3.2 tons of salt and about 10 bags of calcium chloride ( we had a few entrances to the building that required CC only). I made out like a bandit!!

Now, for the reality part of the equation:
If I would have had a normal season, or even 4 or 5 more plow-able events, it is quite possible that I would have lost my a$$!!!

What I learned was that if everything mentioned by the more experienced guys who answered my post(s) would have come true? had I got hit with a "real" Winter, I would have been in rough shape on April 1st. After doing some networking, internet research and chatting with some other local operators, I found out that I did in fact low ball this bid. There were quite a few other local guys getting paid twice as much as I was for lots that were 1/3 smaller than the one I did. I NEVER get lucky in most cases. For once in my life, I did. It stinks that I took this job, as I have now lowered the market rate for stuff in my area.

My actual costs were higher than I had calculated. Fuel prices went through the roof (much better now, thank God!) and guess what else happened?, the transfer case in my 94 Chevy dually dump went out early this Spring. While it didn't happen during a plowing event, it would have if I had gotten hit with another snow. I know this because the truck sat most of the Winter, and other than the one snow event, I used it for salting a few times and that was it. It went out the first time I put 5 yards of mulch on the back.

The best part about this is that after the new one was put in, it too went out after only 3 weeks of use. While it was under warranty the 2nd time, the truck was in the shop both times for almost a week and a half, as my truck uses a transfer case that only fits the year, make and model I have, so it had to be sent in for a re-work of the same unit and then sent back to me rebuilt. Had it snowed like crazy, I would have gone nuts trying to find a replacement truck/plow. While I thought we had a spare, it turns out that vehicle also had some hidden mechanical issues that only showed up in Spring with heavy use.

The time I had figured on the lot taking us to get done was also off. Turns out that when it starts snowing at 3AM and doesn't quit until noon, customers start pulling in at 7AM and parking wherever they want to (They honestly have NO common sense, nor do they give a damn that you are trying to work?). Besides working around their vehicles, it should also be noted that by driving on the lot, it turned some areas into concrete, making it EXTREMELY hard to remove. I never thought about this because our other locations never really have a lot of traffic, so it was never an issue?

With this being said, we were on site almost 3 hours longer than I had anticipated. This pushed back the arrival time to our other jobs, which in turn made some of my other customers less than happy. Another local operator (also a good friend) saved me by doing some of my route for me.

I am posting all of this so that any of you new guys reading this will learn from my mistakes. I am man enough to admit that I screwed up and hopefully you will learn from it? While I got lucky and hit some "easy" $$ This time, that will never happen again. Don't ever go into this thinking it is a quick and easy $ because it isn't! I now know that my pre-planning was off (way off) and so were some of my calculations. Even though I had been plowing for a few years before this, none of my existing accounts were anything like this job. My mind was clouded by $$ signs and it effected my judgement. You can bet that the price for this location is going up this year by at least another $6000 (if not more?). I would rather not get the job then get burned and work for free!

[Puddle of Oil]

I know that feeling. It's the worst feeling in world. Thanks for your update!

[ladder6]

Glad it worked out for you. Lessons learned are always important to keep in the memory bank! Good luck with this uncoming season.

[Wilnip]

What a great guy to not only admit he was wrong but to help everyone elsy by saying why. Thanks and hello from Johnstown.

[njrottyx2]

whenever we do a snow bid we always add extra time for clean up after hours because of all those butt heads that love to park in the middle of where your trying to plow,
and to be honest salt is your biggest profit maker (this is my opinion no hazing please) we get on average $250-$275.00/ton for straight salt and $350-$400/ton for clients that want treated salt.