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Ricks
02-17-2005, 07:32 PM
Hi,

I am thinking of taking over the plowing of the private road I live on. The current person hired to plow does not plow with the storm. So the end result after one or two storms is a very narrow road. Once that happens he states his truck is not large enough to push the banks back and we are stuck.

The private road is about 1/2 mile long with three hills and several turns and twists. The trees are fairly close to the road in spots. The current truck used to plow the road is a F250 with an 8 foot plow.

What would you recommend for me to use to keep the road clear? I have located a 94 toyota (v6 extended cab 5spd), a 67 jeep (cj5 v6 3 spd). I am also looking into a tractor with either a plow or a blower. I understand I will need to plow with the storm no matter what I get. What do you suggest.

Rick.......

jeffw
02-17-2005, 08:29 PM
if he said his f250 with an 8 was to small i would not try it with a jeep, you will soon find you too will run outta room after a couple heavy storms, those frozen banks get very hard.

i would look for an f350 with a nice 8.5 or 9' blade something nice n heavy like a fisher. you need the weight to scrap the road clean.

Ricks
02-17-2005, 09:09 PM
As I see it the problem is not the truck, but with the operator. For example in the last storm we got about 24 inches. The operator plowed the road after 6 or 8 inches were on the ground. He came back after the storm was done and then tried to plow 16 to 18 inches. At that point his truck was only large enough to clear the road. He was not able to move the snow once he had plowed it. For example before the storm the road was 14 feet wide. But after the storm the road was only 8 feet. He had problems because he did not plow the road after another 8 inches were on the ground and then once more after the storm was finished. It is my feeling if he plowed through the storm, the road would be wider once the storm is over. The road would be narrower that 14 feet, but wider than 8 feet.

Please correct me if my understanding / logic is wrong. Or better yet, tell me how you would plow this road given a storm producing 24 inches in a 12 - 14 hour time frame.

Thanks.

Rick........

itsgottobegreen
02-18-2005, 02:01 AM
A kubota with a front mounted snow blower sound like it will do the trick. It can blow all the snow away.

Other choice is to :guns: the operator.

lawn king
02-18-2005, 05:53 AM
The kubota 2650 2 stage pto snowblower will blow snow 45-55 feet @ 2500 tractor rpm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

new2it
02-18-2005, 06:58 AM
Ricks,
That is definitely an operator error. Yes he should have kept up with the storm, but even if he didn't he should have been able to open the road up more than 8 ft. That storm was quite a mess we had. I plowed the first 6" and then went to bed for a couple hours. Got up at 1am to open up my driveway again. Now I had 4" of wet stuff with a good 3 foot wind drifts along my 650 ft driveway (the last 500 ft go through a field). After going out to plow for the next 12 hours I came back home to find 4 foot wind drifts the entire length of the field. It took me a while but I got it all cleaned up. There is no reason that his 250 w/ 8' blade couldn't do the same thing. Even if he was out plowing commercially during the later part of the storm he should have been able to take care of the road at the end. So after a long rambling answer...either of those would do fine. You will definitely need to keep up with it, but even if you fall behind you should be able to chip away and catch up. Sorry for the obnoxiously long answer!

Mick
02-18-2005, 07:59 AM
Ricks, I live just east of Augusta and do a private road very similar to what you're describing. Twelve feet wide, 7/10 mile, two hills, one 90 degree turn, trees close to the road and drop off on one side with a ditch on the other. I use a 3500 with a 9' plow and two yard sander half loaded for ballast.

Think before running out and just getting something with a plow for that driveway. That Toyota or Jeep might be ok for those 3-4"ers, but you'll have even worse problems with those 8"+ snowfalls. Even if you "plow with the storm", you've got to be able to roll that snow off the edge, otherwise you'll be in worse shape than you are now. With wet, heavy snow (even small amounts) you won't be able to get it off the road; you'll just be pushing it to the side and it will fall back in the roadway.

If you're anywhere near me, I'd offer to meet up with you to go over your road and perhaps give you some suggestions. But from the sounds of it, a place to start might be a 3/4 or one ton with an eight/nine foot plow and wing on one side. If you could find an old beater, you could at least control your own plowing. As far as cost effectiveness, buying your own is usually much more expensive than paying a contractor. You just need to find one that knows how to plow snow and will discuss your needs with you. Be willing to pay a little more for someone like that vs the "cheap guy".

justme-
02-18-2005, 11:43 AM
Yeah, I would say go 1 ton, 3/4 minimum. Jeeps are great for light stuff, but it won't carry an 8 footer well and will have trouble pushing any wet stuff, especially up hill. If you can get a 9 fotter all the better for a 1 ton truck. An old wheel loader is also a great possibility- they'll push anything and lift anything else.

Reguardless of what you push with push every 3-4 inches- you'd be surprised how big the windrows get and quickly.

PLOWMAN45
02-18-2005, 10:34 PM
I had a private road to a dead end with 4 houses two on each side i used a 93 ramcharger witha 7.5 meyers but i had a dead end to push to and the end of the street but i never had any problems

Mick
02-19-2005, 07:29 AM
Deleted, picture won't load.

PLOWMAN45
02-19-2005, 07:31 AM
your pic didnt post

Mick
02-19-2005, 07:36 AM
Apparently, I've already posted them in other threads and can't post them a second time.

ace911emt
02-19-2005, 10:05 AM
you have one advantage others don't. on a private road you may not need to register the plow truck since it is not a public road, but insurance is a must.

Mick
02-19-2005, 11:29 AM
you have one advantage others don't. on a private road you may not need to register the plow truck since it is not a public road, but insurance is a must.


You are correct that you would not need to register the truck to plow your own road, but you would also not need to insure it. Either for vehicle insurance or General Liability if the road is considered your property. Both would be covered under your homeowner's insurance. The caution related to insurance is people who live on a private road and are summer residents. Many do not maintain their road during winter months. Subsequently, emergency vehicles cannot get through in case of a fire. If fire trucks cannot reach the building, homeowner's insurance would not cover any damage as a result of fire. The same holds true of those who maintain mimimal heat to prevent damage from freezing pipes. If the road is not maintained for the heating oil truck, insurance will not cover damage as a result of water damage.

Ricks
02-19-2005, 03:00 PM
Thanks for all the replies. Currently I have ruled out the jeep. Still need to look at the toyota. I am still researching a tractor. The private road must be cleared for all the reasons stated. Currently there are five year round residents on the road, so we work hard on keeping it clear. No matter what I get I plan on using it to push the banks back in between the storms. Something our current plow man does not do.

I plan to register the truck in case I need to take it to work or help someone else out.

Mick thanks for the offer. I am in the Oxford Hills area so I guess it comes down to how far east of Augusta you are. I work in Augusta and the commute is about an hour and fifteen minutes.

Rick..........

E&B
02-26-2005, 07:33 PM
Ricks, I have a 2003 f350 with a 8' fisher and a spreader if you interested. It plows city streets just fine.

ohnomrbill
02-26-2005, 11:21 PM
Another way to keep it (the road) wider requires a few more passes (and therefore, time) ... start by plowing the side of the road first and widening it before plowing the snow in the center to the side. You wont have that extra foot or so from the middle to add to the snow already along the curb side when you make the second pass.

Crumm
02-27-2005, 06:51 AM
start by plowing the side of the road first and widening it before plowing the snow in the center to the side.
Thats how I do it. The other trick is to plow at a fairly good clip so that the snow throws out a little farther. I know I am going to get a :nono: but when I need to widen out our road I cruise along at about 35mph and throw the snow out in the trees. I might only take a 6" bite when going fast but after a couple of passes I can have the road back to two lane. I only do about 1/2 mile of road so this works ok, if you are going to do roads for a living you need a grader that can wing the snow way out there.

Kramer
02-27-2005, 04:58 PM
I got the fisher 6'9" on a toyota.
Years ago, I ran an 8' plow on a 3/4 ton chevy with a 400 V8. For residentials, I'd take a jeep or the toyota over that chevy any day (not to mention gas!).

For light snow, the toyota has no problem pushing 12" + but the wetter stuff slows it down. I don't like moving > 6-8" or so of really wet stuff (the March snow storms!).

It's not that great for rolling the snow so long distances of wet snow will really put a stick in your spokes.

For normal residentials its great. Common sense says that you don't try to wait for the end of the storm.

The biggest problem you face is if there are already snow banks on the side. You won't be pushing any hard piles with a Toyota.

I think if you started at the beginning of the year, kept up with the storms and plowed the way that people already described, you might get by with a toyota. But one large wet storm that stopped you from rolling the snow over the side would killl your chances of widening the road for the rest of the year.

The toyota is very effective if you plan ahead at the start of the season to push as far back as possible. If you build up a 24" bank, forget it.

And anyone that tells you to put an 8' plow on a toyota or a jeep is mentally disturbed in my opinion. A 7' plow is all your gonna handle and it will struggle hard in a big storm. The 6'9" is perfect for that size vehicle.

Whatever you get, a snow foil isn't a bad idea either. Good luck to you.

Ricks
03-01-2005, 11:17 AM
This is just the type of advice I was looking for. Would a half ton work, or should I move up to a 3/4 ton or 1 ton?

Rick.........

tvpierce
03-01-2005, 05:10 PM
Crumm gave the best advice when he recommended speed. At full angle, taking small bites, and going fast, you can chip away at banks and beat them back.

jp

CrazyCooter
03-07-2005, 06:24 PM
This is just the type of advice I was looking for. Would a half ton work, or should I move up to a 3/4 ton or 1 ton?

Rick.........


Uh, you guys are nutz.

The guy has one driveway, and you're telling him to get a 3/4 ton with a 9 foot blade? I guess that should be a brand new Hummer?

A jeep is fine, especially a 3 speed.

I plow the same thing, a 1/2 mi drive with a huge hill at the end.

I have plowed large storms with my Arctic Cat 500 4x4 with a 5 foot plow, last one was 10 in on the ground. If the banks are ones you have made, you have no one to blame but yourself. Do what others have said and start on the edges and then go back and start from the center. You wouldn't believe the curl you can get in front of a 500cc 4wheeler. Pushed it over the 3 foot bankings the "regular" guy makes.

A tractor isn't the wisest way to run it. I have one too, and it's not that great for trying to curl snow. No speed. But for pushing back bankings, there's no beatin it. There is no way I would try to snowblow a gravel drive that long, you'd shear pins or cause damage left and right.

I personally would go with the jeep, you can always way it down and chain it, and if you have to get in and shove something back, the wheelbase would work a lot better than the toyota.

Just my .04

butters
03-07-2005, 06:55 PM
I have a similar situation in that I have a 1300' private road and my 410'+ driveway to plow. Granted, yours is a bit longer, but I have a field on one side where the prevailing winds blow and we get around 120"-150" of snow each year. I plow mine with a 1989 Chevy 1500 short box with a Blizzard LT760 and I have zero problems with this setup. I have plowed at least 20 times so far this year (this is my first year plowing) and other than getting stuck a few times it has been no problem. You don't need a 3/4 ton and I highly doubt you would need a 1/2 ton if you are willing to plow with the storm as you say and not let it build up too much. Jeeps are great for plowing and that Toyota would also make a fine choice as long as you put the proper size plow on them. You aren't going to fit a 8' or even 7.5' plow on either of them. Don't even try. I would not recommend a tractor for a couple of reasons. 1. Unless it has a cab on it, it will be cold. A truck cab is toasty and comfortable. 2. A tractor won't move fast enough to throw snow any distance and you will want that with a long driveway. I always windrow towards the side opposite the wind and make several passes to beat back the banks when the road gets narrow. I think that if you don't let the snow pile up and have a plan on where to push it so that it doesn't get in your way later then you will be fine with the Jeep or Toyota. Just make sure you get a plow that fits the vehicle you are putting it on. Blizzard makes a great plow for smaller vehicles as do others. Good Luck.

justme-
03-08-2005, 11:49 AM
Uh, you guys are nutz.

The guy has one driveway, and you're telling him to get a 3/4 ton with a 9 foot blade? I guess that should be a brand new Hummer?

Uh, actually he original post says the pro plows it now with a 3/4 ton and says his 3/4 isn't big enough for the job. Now we all assumed his plower is a pro, and that he knows how to plow- with that in mind is where the recomendations have come from. Since none of us can see it ourselves we have to base on what the OP tells us.
When in doubt always error on the side of bigger, stronger equipment for plowing- that's what we all have suggested.

Crumm
03-08-2005, 04:04 PM
Now we all assumed his plower is a pro, and that he knows how to plow.
That would be the first mistake. The guy wants a plow because the "pro" doesn't do a good job, that would tell me he is not a "pro".

CrazyCooter
03-08-2005, 05:16 PM
Uh, actually he original post says the pro plows it now with a 3/4 ton and says his 3/4 isn't big enough for the job. Now we all assumed his plower is a pro, and that he knows how to plow- with that in mind is where the recomendations have come from. Since none of us can see it ourselves we have to base on what the OP tells us.
When in doubt always error on the side of bigger, stronger equipment for plowing- that's what we all have suggested.


1. You remember what ASSUME makes, right?

2. He stated that the current plowing contractor does not plow with the storm, so he thinks a F250 with an 8' blade cutting through is enough to make a couple of swipes at the end of the storm, collect his $$, and go. Unless he takes the time to take bites, it ain't gonna happen.

3. On the theory of bigger, badder equipment, I should use a dually to haul my canoe? Bigger does not necessarily mean better. Often, more power can get you into more trouble becuase of those ASSUMPTIONS.

4. It's not that the truck is not big enough to do the job, it's that the contractor is cutting corners by plowing with his cajones, not his truck. You can, and I have, plowed that road with a 4wheeler. It's going to take you a longer time, but it'll git r dun.

5. The poster stated he realizes he had to plow with the storm, which means he's a tad smarter than the current plowing individual.

6. I really like lists.

Ricks
03-08-2005, 08:06 PM
If I plow with the storm will an F150 with a 302 and an automatic be big enough to keep the road clear? The f150 is a 1985 with a 7'6" fisher blade. The current owner is asking 3500.00

Thanks again for all your help and debate.

Rick.......

Mdirrigation
03-08-2005, 09:14 PM
That will work fine , price would be high for my area though. Its the end of the season you have all year to find something.

Mick
03-09-2005, 02:45 AM
If I plow with the storm will an F150 with a 302 and an automatic be big enough to keep the road clear? The f150 is a 1985 with a 7'6" fisher blade. The current owner is asking 3500.00

Thanks again for all your help and debate.

Rick.......

Just make sure it's 4wd and it's working, especially with hills. Or else, you could put a set of chains on it and about 3-400 pounds of ballast in the bed.

Mdirrigation
03-09-2005, 07:32 AM
Found you a truck , you will have no problen staying open with this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80765&item=4532520282&rd=1

justme-
03-09-2005, 12:52 PM
That would be the first mistake. The guy wants a plow because the "pro" doesn't do a good job, that would tell me he is not a "pro".
I agree with both of your points. But noone was taking into consideration the assumption to base the bigger trucks being recomended.


Now as to the canoe on a dually....would you rather push snow with a 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton pickup? Would you rather a truck that can carry the load you want but only just, or a truck that can easily carry the load (I understand the excessive infrence). you willing to put a 5K Lbs winch on the front of a 1 ton truck because the trucks rolling resistance is less than 5K lbs- or do you put on a 12Klbs winch so there is enough power without overstraining the equipment even when in mud and such? you take my point to extremes and semi out of context.

CrazyCooter
03-09-2005, 06:10 PM
I agree with both of your points. But noone was taking into consideration the assumption to base the bigger trucks being recomended.


Now as to the canoe on a dually....would you rather push snow with a 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton pickup? Would you rather a truck that can carry the load you want but only just, or a truck that can easily carry the load (I understand the excessive infrence). you willing to put a 5K Lbs winch on the front of a 1 ton truck because the trucks rolling resistance is less than 5K lbs- or do you put on a 12Klbs winch so there is enough power without overstraining the equipment even when in mud and such? you take my point to extremes and semi out of context.

Okay, comparisons:

If you live in the city and have a 20x40 foot lawn, would you buy a push mower or a tractor? Sure, the tractor can mow it faster, and will go through deeper grass better, but how do you cost justify the purchase if all you have to do is just your lawn? Maybe if you had a landscaping business it would make sense, but if its just your lawn, it's not practical to spend that much money.

This individual wants what we all want, the best bang for your buck. Spending 10x the cost to get a 3/4 ton truck might not be in his best interests. Again, remeber, I have plowed that same size road with a large hill, and it got the job done. Not as fast as my 3/4 ton would, but it'd be rediculous to assume it would, as it was 20k less in price.

I would recommend he get a 3/4 ton 4x4 with a 8 1/2 foot plow, but I'd also recommend a jeep, or a toyota, or a half ton, and knowing it's capibilities. It's his money to spend, it all depends on how much of it he'd like to keep in his pocket.

As to the winch inference, it would depend on how often I went and put myself in a situation that needed to use it. If it was only every so often, even a comealong would do the job, just slower. If my driveway was a swamp run, I'd get the bigger winch. Use justification to cost always wins, as long as you think with the right head -- unless you have deep pockets, and then get whatever you want.

I'm not trying to take your point out of context. He asked for opinions, and I believe that's what we're both giving him. God knows I'm not buying it for him.

Ricks
03-09-2005, 08:16 PM
Yes I am looking for the biggest bang for my buck. I want a truck that can do the job. But I don't want a truck that is too large 95% of the time. I would rather make several passes and have to work the truck for a longer period of time on the bigger storms. (More passes and less of a bite for each pass.) That being said I also don't want to spend all day out plowing the road with a four wheeler and a five foot plow. Yes I know that would work.

Yes I am looking for your opinions. And if you happen to buy me a truck with a plow I won't complain.

Rick.........

justme-
03-10-2005, 12:20 PM
Okay, comparisons:

If you live in the city and have a 20x40 foot lawn..

This individual wants what we all want, the best bang for your buck. Spending 10x the cost to get a 3/4 ton truck might not be in his best interests.

As to the winch inference,... If it was only every so often, even a comealong would do the job, just slower.

Use justification to cost always wins, as long as you think with the right head -- unless you have deep pockets, and then get whatever you want.

I'm not trying to take your point out of context. He asked for opinions, and I believe that's what we're both giving him. God knows I'm not buying it for him.
Point and counter point.
All I carry is come alongs- my winch is on a trailer because it more useful to me there. Well said and well thought. I doubt he was referring to buy a brand new truck, and the cost difference between a Jeep and a 3/4 ton is not that great in the used market, at least around here.
I have been amazed several times by what a vehicle in the hands of a capable and competant driver can do- my father used to love driving his K5 through places I didn't think possible- consequently I have learned, and continue to learn what my trucks can do so I will conciede all he may need is a Jeep.
My concern is simply this: not having enough truck for the job. I could plow my entire route with a CJ and a 6 footer for 95% of the storms we get, but it would take me alot longer to do that, it would also leave me up the creek for those other 5% of storms that are simply too much for such a small truck, plus a smaller and lighter duty truck doesn't stand up as well to that kind of use and abuse as snowplowing can be so repairs can be a significant factor in both overall cost and reliability, not to mention ability in the first place. The description of that one driveway is more of a challange than most of the driveways on my route.
The 1/2 ton Vs. 3/4 ton issue was simple for me- durability overall won. If I had bought the 1/2 ton I would have spent as much or more than the 3/4 ton cost me with the maintenance and repairs over the past 5 years. If the cost would equal out in money- I have a savings in agrivation by not having to deal with the breakdowns and such.

I suppose at worst case if he buys a 1/2 ton, or even a jeep it'll be readily apparent if the truck is not big enough by the first season, and it would be easy to upgrade to a bigger truck for the next one.

And one more suggestion- at worst case a 1/2 ton pickup would carry one of those 8 foot snowblowers.....

CrazyCooter
03-10-2005, 09:35 PM
I have been amazed several times by what a vehicle in the hands of a capable and competant driver can do- my father used to love driving his K5 through places I didn't think possible- consequently I have learned, and continue to learn what my trucks can do so I will conciede all he may need is a Jeep.
My concern is simply this: not having enough truck for the job. I could plow my entire route with a CJ and a 6 footer for 95% of the storms we get, but it would take me alot longer to do that, it would also leave me up the creek for those other 5% of storms that are simply too much for such a small truck, plus a smaller and lighter duty truck doesn't stand up as well to that kind of use and abuse as snowplowing can be so repairs can be a significant factor in both overall cost and reliability, not to mention ability in the first place. The description of that one driveway is more of a challange than most of the driveways on my route.
The 1/2 ton Vs. 3/4 ton issue was simple for me- durability overall won. If I had bought the 1/2 ton I would have spent as much or more than the 3/4 ton cost me with the maintenance and repairs over the past 5 years. If the cost would equal out in money- I have a savings in agrivation by not having to deal with the breakdowns and such.

I suppose at worst case if he buys a 1/2 ton, or even a jeep it'll be readily apparent if the truck is not big enough by the first season, and it would be easy to upgrade to a bigger truck for the next one.

And one more suggestion- at worst case a 1/2 ton pickup would carry one of those 8 foot snowblowers.....

Touche.

Murhy's law rings true for me 100% of the time -- if bought a heavy duty truck, it would break down more and wish I bought something cheaper.

THe only other condieration is that since the guy is a one driveway deal, He may have a friend or neighbor who can pull a jeep out easily, but a 3/4 ton xcab 4x4 with a heavy plow might be more than they could easily wrench out.
Maneuverability is a plus, too, so if he did have to bang back a couple of drifts, he could slip a Jeep sideways in the road to do so. That being said, I'd probably rather use a toyota with a 6 ft plow than a jeep, as there is a little more mass working in your favor.

I of course have a heavy duty truck; I have owned three toyotas and the hauling jobs always left me wishing I had more power. So, hence what I have now. But's also not my daily driver; if it's not snowing, I drive my Volvo. Right tool for the job.

Heck, at summer prices, buy a jeep and a 3/4 ton. Find out your favorite at the beginning of the season and sell the 2nd one at a profit in the winter when people have the itch to buy one.

Guess he just has to consider the duty cycle of the job to decide if the heavy duty truck is what he can justify.

Of course, whichever one he decides upon, he'dl wish he'd gone the other way. The snow is always whiter on the other side, eh?

lawnandplow42
03-25-2005, 01:05 PM
Buy something dependable.

Also, although i prefer fisher, i'd go with a western in your situation. This is because i think full blade trip is best for private roads; they will trip if you hit something higher than the edge, and hit a hard snowbank.

Plow with the storm, and if you are going to get into sanding, i'd go with atleast a 3/4 ton. truck