PDA

View Full Version : Switching to blowing service


Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6

NicholasMWhite
02-09-2011, 09:27 AM
As soon as I have some time, I will answer all your questions. Been 10 days straight of just 4 - 6 hrs sleep. Did have time to upload the inverted blower clearing 8 inches of snow in driveways with a good size city berm at the apron. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnz8DT6mGNo

Thanks Neige. That video is awesome it seems like it takes only about %25 longer to do a heavy snow compared to the light snow you had in the last driveway video you posted. Thanks again and get some sleep!

EGLC
02-09-2011, 10:58 AM
what make inverted blower is that and what hp tractor? how many drives can a good operator do? do you wait until end of storm or do you make rounds every x"? how do those tires work compared to AG tires?

OrganicsL&L
02-09-2011, 11:02 AM
what make inverted blower is that and what hp tractor? how many drives can a good operator do? do you wait until end of storm or do you make rounds every x"? how do those tires work compared to AG tires?

Go back to the beginning of this thread....it is great with a lot of info.

Triple L
02-09-2011, 11:42 AM
what do you do after the city plows and salts the street? do you still leave all that snow on the street?

blowerman
02-09-2011, 11:49 AM
what do you do after the city plows and salts the street? do you still leave all that snow on the street?

I thought the same thing. We take care of a huge condo project that's on all city streets and the owners want the drives cleared before they wake up. Now, city comes by at 7:00 ish in the morning and my skid loader with blower operator has to re-do all the ends.

How do you handle it Paul?

MogMan
02-09-2011, 06:51 PM
Here's a short clip of me blowin' it.

BTW, this is a gravel alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LG4rJ13Qks

OrganicsL&L
02-09-2011, 07:21 PM
Nice Vid. Looks like that is in mid winter form with the ground frozen solid. My concerns are late fall/early spring when things are a bit soft....but thinking back to my Ariens wb snow blower, I've definitely hit gravel and it just shot out.....just have to be careful where the shoot is aiming!

Golfpro21
02-09-2011, 07:39 PM
Here's a short clip of me blowin' it.

BTW, this is a gravel alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LG4rJ13Qks

Mogman
Nice vid......that machine looks unstopable

MogMan
02-10-2011, 07:02 PM
Mogman
Nice vid......that machine looks unstopable

Thanks !

It's gonna be even more unstoppable once I put my hands on a set of 425-size XM47's. The XZL I have are good on the highway but the XM47 is the reference in snow and mud.

Neige
02-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L26JqAaaHjI

cretebaby
02-10-2011, 09:30 PM
Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L26JqAaaHjI

I like how he backs up to the next drive. Saves alot of steps.

MogMan
02-10-2011, 09:54 PM
Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L26JqAaaHjI

Nice !

Is that a TS110 ?

mnlefty
02-11-2011, 10:37 AM
Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L26JqAaaHjI

That is a great video Paul, thanks for sharing. I do have a question though. I can see the hydraulic levers controlling the chute and spout, the PTO raise/lower on the arm rest, and the PTO engagement looks to be on the dash below the raised instrument...

Is this a hydro tractor with fwd and rev as separate pedals or a rocker pedal, or am I missing the fwd/rev shift somewhere with his hands (armrest)??.

MogMan
02-11-2011, 10:50 AM
That is a great video Paul, thanks for sharing. I do have a question though. I can see the hydraulic levers controlling the chute and spout, the PTO raise/lower on the arm rest, and the PTO engagement looks to be on the dash below the raised instrument...

Is this a hydro tractor with fwd and rev as separate pedals or a rocker pedal, or am I missing the fwd/rev shift somewhere with his hands (armrest)??.

The fwd/rev lever is on the steering column (orange)

pic is from a different NH but it's at the same location

http://www.mascus.com/image/product/large/5ee13b32/New-Holland-T6020-EC-Elite,474998d0.jpg

mnlefty
02-11-2011, 11:20 AM
Feel a bit like an idiot now... I looked for the lever on the column which turns out is just out of view of the camera. Since I couldn't see the actual lever I never watched the left hand close enough to see him shift. His slight of hand got me lol!

Neige
02-12-2011, 09:34 AM
the guy I talked to runs a tractor/blower here in barrie and has done for years...I am not saying they are the blower to go with.....I don't know alot about the tractor/blower set up...ust trying to gain knowledge of all the options
are there things I should know about lucknow blowers

Here are some pics of your choices maybe this will help decide.
In order from left to right. Lucknow - Normand - Pronovst - Shoule is below

Neige
02-12-2011, 09:47 AM
I'm very interested in this as well as my own driveway is gravel. I don't plan on running it on my own because of the fact that it is gravel but I'd be interest to hear anyone's experiences with an inverted blower on gravel. I personally would think that it's not worth the risk. If the road wasn't graded perfectly smooth you run the risk of push gravel through the blower and that's something I don't think I could live with.

Its makes it a little more time consuming. Usually we just turn off the blower and pull it till the road and then blow it on the front lawn. That way you pack it down more quickly. We have a clause in our contracts stating we are not responsible for cleaning up the gravel on their yards in the spring.

I have a question about tractor tires.

It seems a lot of guys who are running tractors are recommending the Nokian TRI 2 tires. I was wonder if those make a huge difference when blowing snow. I plan to get a tractor just for blowing with an inverted blower. No plowing at all. That being the case will the R1 ag tires be just fine? I assume traction is a bigger issue when plowing and that's why the tires make a big difference. But if you're only blowing will there be any difference between the Nokian's and R1's?

We go with the standard ag tires that come with the tractor. Unless you have steep drives, reg tires will do.

I thought the same thing. We take care of a huge condo project that's on all city streets and the owners want the drives cleared before they wake up. Now, city comes by at 7:00 ish in the morning and my skid loader with blower operator has to re-do all the ends.

How do you handle it Paul?

Thats how we do it also. We try to follow the muni plow, and just do after he has gone by. Most times we cannot wait so we service the cleint before and then run around and follow the muni plow and get rid of his windrow. This video shows what I mean.
Its not like this most times, but it does happen.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lJiMpAl-sc

Neige
02-12-2011, 09:49 AM
Here's a short clip of me blowin' it.

BTW, this is a gravel alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LG4rJ13Qks

Thats really sweat MogMan. Lots of heads must turn when you drive around in that rig. Thumbs Up

OrganicsL&L
02-12-2011, 09:56 AM
The Pronovost, SHoule, and Normand all look about the same quality. That Luck Now doesn't seem as rugged. What do you all think?

NicholasMWhite
02-12-2011, 10:03 AM
The Pronovost, SHoule, and Normand all look about the same quality. That Luck Now doesn't seem as rugged. What do you all think?

The lucknow looks like a childs toy. It appears as if it doesn't come with hydraulics and the chute turn looks like it's operated by a ram and cables instead of a hydraulic motor. Seems like a far inferior design.

MogMan
02-12-2011, 10:53 AM
Thats really sweat MogMan. Lots of heads must turn when you drive around in that rig. Thumbs Up

Yeah, you can actually hear the jaws hit the ground when i drive around. Even worse when I'm on the highway doing 92kph. Works nice but I'm still gonna buy one of your TS110 for next season. Thumbs Up

I'm gonna drop all the accounts that are too far from my HQ.

paper65
02-12-2011, 01:00 PM
For those that actually have issue with blower and gravel, you can add wheels mouted on 2 cylinders attach to the blower an use one hydrolic function to raise/lower the blower when you have a gravel driveway. This way you drop the wheel and the blower raise and his support on the wheels. We have actually 3 tractors set this way, works great.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 01:37 PM
So I love this thread and have learned a lot from it.
Here is a question for all of you guys who are currently blowing drives and so on. I live in a subdivision with about 3 miles of 30 foot wide blacktop (asphalt) roads. There are 4 different associations within the "master" association. I plowed all the roads for 3 years and never had any complaints from my neighbors. I had a meeting with everyone in our clubhouse to field questions about how they wanted to see things done. After they told me their ideas, I told them i would do what they asked and then we could make changes as the season went along if they felt it was necessary. I was also awarded all 4 of the internal associations as well. Basically it was 30 some double, triple and quadruple wide drives for single family and condos. Its a cool place to plow for me because I live there. My problem is that we get a LOT of drifting and blowing here and a plow can only do just so much after the banks along the road get 30" tall or so. I have been using my f-350 and my takeuchi tl 130 with a 6' blower to handle it all. This year they got a really cheap bid to take care of everything and i was out. The neighbors are all unhappy because they fell I was doing exactly what each association wanted, and the fact that I live here made them feel good because I was just a phone call away if they needed something.
The association members have contacted me to tell me how they feel about what is being done and they are not happy.
They want minimal plowing and as much blowing as I can do for next year. So I am looking for advice on a tractor and blower combo. I will plow the roads to with in 3 to 4 feet of the edge and then blow the rest including the drives. I think for what I am looking at a front mount PTO blower in the 6-7 foot range will be the best. If I can throw the snow about 30 feet i would be in good shape. i will also need to be able to road the tractor from job to job, about 5 miles total.
Is a tractor the best way to go or would a toolcat with a high flow blower do a good job. If i can land all of it there is about 40 drives plus the roads.

Sorry for the long winded post and thanks for your input.

I should add this... I mentioned the toolcat because some of the drives are pretty tight and about 8 are only 18-20 feet long and 20-30 feet wide. The rest are 40-50 feet long and about 30 feet wide at the top and 20 feet or so at the bottom.

DaySpring Services
02-12-2011, 02:11 PM
I'd go with a mid sized Ag tractor and inverted blower. It wont be cheap though. Just blow the roads and driveways.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 02:41 PM
I'd go with a mid sized Ag tractor and inverted blower. It wont be cheap though. Just blow the roads and driveways.

I was originally going to go with what you mentioned. But after watching how the last storm affected this place i am concerned that I would not be able to get through the drifts while pulling a blower. We had about 300 yards that was 4-7 feet tall and almost the width of the road. I saw vdzonpaul's video using the inverted to pull through some piles on youtube, but I don't think that would work to well here. It drifts a LOT. we only get about 60" of snow per year, but with the blowing out by our subdivision in can not have snowed for 3 days and I will be plowing all 3 days due to the drifting.
What would be some good tractors to look at? HP?
Am i dreaming thinking a toolcat could do it along with my truck and 8'2" V-XT?

ProTouchGrounds
02-12-2011, 03:39 PM
does the shoule have a spring loaded drag blade? we dont shovel in front of garages unless contracted to do so, but 30" is too much to leave so we have to get the back blade option. its $1K on the normands, but im kind of liking the spring loaded idea, one less maneuver to worry about.

can someone post a link to shoule's site, i tried to google it but results come back as "should" damn autocorrect...

MogMan
02-12-2011, 03:43 PM
does the shoule have a spring loaded drag blade? we dont shovel in front of garages unless contracted to do so, but 30" is too much to leave so we have to get the back blade option. its $1K on the normands, but im kind of liking the spring loaded idea, one less maneuver to worry about.

can someone post a link to shoule's site, i tried to google it but results come back as "should" damn autocorrect...

I too would like a spring loaded type of back blade on my Pronovost. I am brainstorming a home made one. The attachment point are already there. Might go with a fixed blade, using steel tubing with a 6" strip of 1/2" steel, 92 inches long.

A close-up pic of the Shoule system would be helpful.

DaySpring Services
02-12-2011, 03:43 PM
does the shoule have a spring loaded drag blade? we dont shovel in front of garages unless contracted to do so, but 30" is too much to leave so we have to get the back blade option. its $1K on the normands, but im kind of liking the spring loaded idea, one less maneuver to worry about.

Yes they do have a rear blade as an option. I believe it is around $1500. They have a picture of it on their website.

I'm not sure how a toolcat will do with drifts that deep. It will go though them but it's going to be slow. Just not enough hp with the hydraulics. That's why I got rid of my Bobcat/blower setup.

blowerman
02-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Does anyone have experience with pronovost back drag blades?

To add: you can google all you want, this is one of the most informative threads for snowblowing service. While I don't have inverted blowers, I do own the pxpl and several skids with blowers, so I hope I've added valuable information as well.

ProTouchGrounds
02-12-2011, 04:19 PM
but is the shoule spring loaded? i know the normand is hydraulic and i believe the pronovost is as well. im just saying that the spring loaded design is less to worry about, not having to manually activate it and raise it like a spring loaded design.

i meant i cant find shoule's website anywhere.

Neige
02-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Here is the website for SHoule http://shoule.com/souffleuse_s492_an.htm

IMAGE
02-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Im not sure if they are spring loaded or hyd, but i know the hyd ones can easily be converted to spring loaded.

OrganicsL&L
02-12-2011, 04:58 PM
Excav8ter....While I'm not currently using the blower set up, I have been looking at different models of driveway clearing, and will be switching to blowers next year. For what you need, and from what I've learned, I think the blower would work fine for you, as long as you are working it through the storm. My plan would be to blow the roads starting at 4" and keep going throughout the storm. You will probably want to hit the drives a few times in a big storm, but with only 40, that shouldn't take very long. The trick would be to stay in front on those drifted areas. Before I found this thread, I was all excited about a toolcat, but after a demo, no way does it have the stones to do what you want. You want a 100 hp tractor with an inverted. You will be able to do the roads and drives with one machine. JMO.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 04:59 PM
I know the toolcat is gonna be slow. But I have no use for an ag tractor in the no snow months. A toolcat i can use. Maybe I should update my CTL to a high flow, at least that way I could climb up the big drifts to knock the tops off. What tractors have a front pto? Is a 45 HP tractor enough? I did this place for 3 years and never had to get back up help. One year was a lot of work because we got just under 10 feet of snow over the winter. Renting would cost too much. I am hoping to get a 2-3 year deal here to help with securing the purchase.

cretebaby
02-12-2011, 05:15 PM
I know the toolcat is gonna be slow. But I have no use for an ag tractor in the no snow months. A toolcat i can use. Maybe I should update my CTL to a high flow, at least that way I could climb up the big drifts to knock the tops off. What tractors have a front pto? Is a 45 HP tractor enough? I did this place for 3 years and never had to get back up help. One year was a lot of work because we got just under 10 feet of snow over the winter. Renting would cost too much. I am hoping to get a 2-3 year deal here to help with securing the purchase.

You won't need a front PTO as they make kits that run a shaft from the rear. Erskine has some pretty good pics that will give you an idea of how it is done.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 05:17 PM
Excav8ter....While I'm not currently using the blower set up, I have been looking at different models of driveway clearing, and will be switching to blowers next year. For what you need, and from what I've learned, I think the blower would work fine for you, as long as you are working it through the storm. My plan would be to blow the roads starting at 4" and keep going throughout the storm. You will probably want to hit the drives a few times in a big storm, but with only 40, that shouldn't take very long. The trick would be to stay in front on those drifted areas. Before I found this thread, I was all excited about a toolcat, but after a demo, no way does it have the stones to do what you want. You want a 100 hp tractor with an inverted. You will be able to do the roads and drives with one machine. JMO.

You really think a 100 hp is needed? We usually get 2 or 3 bigger snows per year, most are 6" or less. This year we have had more 2-3" snow falls than i can ever remember. I would plow right through a storm if we got one. With a blower on my side I think drifting would be cut down quite a bit just because of minimal piles from the plow. The last storm I had that i plowed here was 2 years a go and I just stayed on top of it. I kept everything open and passable and after the storm i went around and blew out the bad spots with my CTL and the 6 foot blower. One big problem i see here is when the plowed snow along the edge of the road gets over 2 feet tall, the drifting really gets going. We haven't really had snow since last sunday and we have been plowed 3 times due to the drifting and blowing.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 05:21 PM
You won't need a front PTO as they make kits that run a shaft from the rear. Erskine has some pretty good pics that will give you an idea of how it is done.

Thanks, I will look into that. Can you recommend a few tractors to look at? What models and so on. I see a lot of guys going with 100 HP. It seems like a lot to me,but what do i know?

cretebaby
02-12-2011, 05:25 PM
Thanks, I will look into that. Can you recommend a few tractors to look at? What models and so on. I see a lot of guys going with 100 HP. It seems like a lot to me,but what do i know?

Sorry, can't help you much here other than to say you can't go wrong with green tractors.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 05:56 PM
Sorry, can't help you much here other than to say you can't go wrong with green tractors.

Haha, gotcha. My dads buddy owns a few Deere dealerships.

MogMan
02-12-2011, 06:53 PM
Sorry, can't help you much here other than to say you can't go wrong with green tractors.

How much does a green one cost compared to a blue one, let's say a T6020 (75ish k) ?

OrganicsL&L
02-12-2011, 07:04 PM
Excav8....hopefully neige can chime in soon, I think his tractors are in the 85-100hp range. If you are doing roads like that, I would think that you would want the largest blower you can find, if that is the case, then you will need a larger tractor.

Again, this is what I have deduced from research, not field experience. Blowerman, Neige and a few others can certainly help with experience.

Neige
02-12-2011, 07:32 PM
You really think a 100 hp is needed? We usually get 2 or 3 bigger snows per year, most are 6" or less. This year we have had more 2-3" snow falls than i can ever remember. I would plow right through a storm if we got one. With a blower on my side I think drifting would be cut down quite a bit just because of minimal piles from the plow. The last storm I had that i plowed here was 2 years a go and I just stayed on top of it. I kept everything open and passable and after the storm i went around and blew out the bad spots with my CTL and the 6 foot blower. One big problem i see here is when the plowed snow along the edge of the road gets over 2 feet tall, the drifting really gets going. We haven't really had snow since last sunday and we have been plowed 3 times due to the drifting and blowing.

I really think that 100hp is what you should aim for, remember you want 75hp on the PTO.
What you are talking about doing you want to go with one of the quality blowers that I had mentioned before. The price also gets reflected in how much snow the blower can handle. The size of the drum and fan will make a difference. If you have 5 miles of roads you could do it with only the blower, and would need to make 4 passes. If you really want to windrow it to the side and then blow it on the property, I am afraid the inverted would no longer be your best choice. I really don't think the tool cat will be the right choice either. Sometimes you can rent a tractor from a farmer, could be win win for both of you. Tractor rentals go around 7 grand in my market. Here is a vid that gives you an idea how it handles doing roads. I have to go tomorrow to redo this road because of drifting, I will try and take a video to show you how well it does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0yvbe4ilYM

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Excav8....hopefully neige can chime in soon, I think his tractors are in the 85-100hp range. If you are doing roads like that, I would think that you would want the largest blower you can find, if that is the case, then you will need a larger tractor.

Again, this is what I have deduced from research, not field experience. Blowerman, Neige and a few others can certainly help with experience.

Thanks Organics. I know bigger is better.... usually. I will be looking at all my options when the time comes. I know a few of the people in the condo associations would freak out a little if I was on their drives with too big of a tractor. But they LOVE the idea of not pushing snow onto their lawns. Blowing on their lawns is ok. They always worry about tire tracks and turf damage.

excav8ter
02-12-2011, 07:38 PM
I really think that 100hp is what you should aim for, remember you want 75hp on the PTO.
What you are talking about doing you want to go with one of the quality blowers that I had mentioned before. The price also gets reflected in how much snow the blower can handle. The size of the drum and fan will make a difference. If you have 5 miles of roads you could do it with only the blower, and would need to make 4 passes. If you really want to windrow it to the side and then blow it on the property, I am afraid the inverted would no longer be your best choice. I really don't think the tool cat will be the right choice either. Sometimes you can rent a tractor from a farmer, could be win win for both of you. Tractor rentals go around 7 grand in my market. Here is a vid that gives you an idea how it handles doing roads. I have to go tomorrow to redo this road because of drifting, I will try and take a video to show you how well it does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0yvbe4ilYM

Thanks! I have seen that video of yours before, it really shows how well the inverted works on long stretches. Do you blow all of your snow? Even the small amounts, like 2' or so?

OrganicsL&L
02-12-2011, 08:04 PM
Neige, is that $7k/mo or for the season?

MogMan
02-12-2011, 08:47 PM
Neige, is that $7k/mo or for the season?

I sure hope it's not per month. With that kind of money you might as well buy one. 1750$/month for 4 month sounds better. 200 drives at 300$ each still leaves you with 53k minus fuel, insurrance, maintenance. That's good monies right there.

OrganicsL&L
02-12-2011, 09:17 PM
I agree Mog, kind of freaked me out at first. $7k for the winter would be great. I was quoted $2500/mo for a toolcat with a 72" blower last year. I figured I could make it work if I could do enough drives....which I couldn't with a TC.

cretebaby
02-12-2011, 10:17 PM
How much does a green one cost compared to a blue one, let's say a T6020 (75ish k) ?

Good question. IDK.

excav8ter
02-13-2011, 03:29 AM
I agree Mog, kind of freaked me out at first. $7k for the winter would be great. I was quoted $2500/mo for a toolcat with a 72" blower last year. I figured I could make it work if I could do enough drives....which I couldn't with a TC.

I got the same quote. I figured if the jobs i bid specifically for the TC, i would have been better of to buy one and sell it in the spring.

ProTouchGrounds
02-13-2011, 09:03 AM
what do you guys think about this tractor for use with a 92" inverted with backblade option and hydro chute/deflector options:

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6114621&

http://www.tractorhouse.com/images/Tractor/fullsize/88732268.jpg
http://www.tractorhouse.com/images/Tractor/fullsize/88732304.jpg


very few hours on this one:
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6086803&

MogMan
02-13-2011, 09:23 AM
what do you guys think about this tractor for use with a 92" inverted with backblade option and hydro chute/deflector options:

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6114621&

http://www.tractorhouse.com/images/Tractor/fullsize/88732268.jpg
http://www.tractorhouse.com/images/Tractor/fullsize/88732304.jpg


very few hours on this one:
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6086803&

OUHHHHHHHH !

Nice rig ! The interior ergonomics looks good

Neige has a couple of those I think. I know that Kubota excavators are the reference, super reliable, don't know much about their tractors. I do know that 26k sounds like a good deal for a 2008 since the NHs that I have been looking at are around 30k but for a 2002 (TS110)

NicholasMWhite
02-13-2011, 09:38 AM
OUHHHHHHHH !

Nice rig ! The interior ergonomics looks good

Neige has a couple of those I think. I know that Kubota excavators are the reference, super reliable, don't know much about their tractors. I do know that 26k sounds like a good deal for a 2008 since the NHs that I have been looking at are around 30k but for a 2002 (TS110)

The New Holland TS110 is in a different class than the Kubota M9540. The quote I got for a new Kubota M9540 from my dealer was $43,000. The New Holland TS110 is in the class of the Kubota M110X. The Kubota M110X would go for about $55,000 brand new. The New Holland equivalent of the Kubota M9540 is a T4050. I'm still waiting for a quote on the New Holland T4050. But I expect it to be right around $45,000.

That being said $26,000 is not a bad price. But it still has 2,000 plus hours on it and is a used machine.

Neige
02-13-2011, 09:39 AM
Neige, is that $7k/mo or for the season?


Sorry I was not specific on this one, thats for 6 months and 250 hrs.

what do you guys think about this tractor for use with a 92" inverted with backblade option and hydro chute/deflector options:

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6114621&

http://www.tractorhouse.com/images/Tractor/fullsize/88732268.jpg
http://www.tractorhouse.com/images/Tractor/fullsize/88732304.jpg


very few hours on this one:
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6086803&

Thats a perfect size tractor for what you want to do. Plenty of HP and the biggest part of the depreciation is gone. If you keep that machine looking that good, it should not depreciate more than 3 grand per year. The hours are just right, good find.

MogMan
02-13-2011, 09:51 AM
The quote I got for a new Kubota M9540 from my dealer was $43,000. The New Holland TS110 is in the class of the Kubota M110X. The Kubota M110X would go for about $55,000 brand new.


I got quoted around 90k for a T6070, fully loaded :eek:

NicholasMWhite
02-13-2011, 10:02 AM
I got quoted around 90k for a T6070, fully loaded :eek:

As far as I know a T6070 is a bi-directional tractor. Which I guess would be nice to have but I don't see a huge benefit if you are going to use your P-920-IV with it. A bi-di is VERY nice to have if you have a PXPL. But with an inverted like yours I don't see why you would want one. The T4000 series is the low end. But it is the equivalent of the Mxx40 Kubota series. Of the new New Holland tractors I would say the T6020 would be the closest to a TS110. And I would guess new it would be in the price range of $60,000.

MogMan
02-13-2011, 10:04 AM
As far as I know a T6070 is a bi-directional tractor. Which I guess would be nice to have but I don't see a huge benefit if you are going to use your P-920-IV with it. A bi-di is VERY nice to have if you have a PXPL. But with an inverted like yours I don't see why you would want one. The T4000 series is the low end. But it is the equivalent of the Mxx40 Kubota series. Of the new New Holland tractors I would say the T6020 would be the closest to a TS110. And I would guess new it would be in the price range of $60,000.

TV6070 is the bidi, T6070, is the newer model of a ts110

http://www.agricoleideal.com/list/view_image.cfm?ID=384550&Browse=1&SearchID=63926423&BrowseIndustryID=1&BrowseType=480&BrowseMake=266&BrowseModel=TS110&startrow=1&Act=EQUIPVIEW&listpage=index.cfm

NLS1
02-13-2011, 10:16 AM
This has been the best thread ever IMO. We are close to adding a 160 unit Town Home Association this next season and are planning to do it with a tractor and blower. This thread has been priceless. Thanks to all those who input and to the OP.

Blowerman, how is the PXPL holding up? That is one awesome looking rig by the way! Ever find it too big? The reason I ask it that the HOA's we are likely adding are tight and the garages have a common drive with garage doors facing each other.

Neige, over the years what does your experience tell you for reliability of tractor brands? Has one been better than others? And are there tractor add-ons or options that are so much more productive that you just couldn't live without it anymore? I need this new machine to be productive and easy to use for the long haul.

Thanks-
Dan

NicholasMWhite
02-13-2011, 10:24 AM
TV6070 is the bidi, T6070, is the newer model of a ts110

http://www.agricoleideal.com/list/view_image.cfm?ID=384550&Browse=1&SearchID=63926423&BrowseIndustryID=1&BrowseType=480&BrowseMake=266&BrowseModel=TS110&startrow=1&Act=EQUIPVIEW&listpage=index.cfm

You are correct. I was mistaken. On their website though, they do not show any new model of a T6070. Only a TV6070. The website shows the T6000 series going up to a T6060. Even the T6060 has an engine HP of 130 and a PTO HP of 110. The TS110 has an engine HP of 110 and a PTO HP of 90.

The closest model offered on their website is a T6020 which has the specs listed as engine HP: 110 and PTO HP of 90. I think that would be more than enough for the P-920-IV.

New Holland's T6000 series line up:
http://agriculture.newholland.com/us/en/Products/Agricultural-Tractors/T6000/Pages/products_models.aspx

Specs of older TS110:
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/1/1/3115-new-holland-ts110.html

MogMan
02-13-2011, 10:30 AM
You are correct. I was mistaken. On their website though, they do not show any new model of a T6070. Only a TV6070. The website shows the T6000 series going up to a T6060. Even the T6060 has an engine HP of 130 and a PTO HP of 110. The TS110 has an engine HP of 110 and a PTO HP of 90.

The closest model offered on their website is a T6020 which has the specs listed as engine HP: 110 and PTO HP of 90. I think that would be more than enough for the P-920-IV.

New Holland's T6000 series line up:
http://agriculture.newholland.com/us/en/Products/Agricultural-Tractors/T6000/Pages/products_models.aspx

Specs of older TS110:
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/1/1/3115-new-holland-ts110.html


Neige's newer one is a T6020 I believe. I'll call my dealer monday to see if there is a big difference between T6070 and T6020 pricewise. 90k was with pricey options, like powercommand 50kph tranny 24 speed and suspended Terraglide front axle.

I do think it makes more sense to go with a used one, where max depreciation has already kicked-in.

NicholasMWhite
02-13-2011, 10:48 AM
Neige's newer one is a T6020 I believe. I'll call my dealer monday to see if there is a big difference between T6070 and T6020 pricewise. 90k was with pricey options, like powercommand 50kph tranny 24 speed and suspended Terraglide front axle.

I do think it makes more sense to go with a used one, where max depreciation has already kicked-in.

I don't think the 24 speed gear box is necessary for what we're looking to do. Niege may be able to comment with more experience. The 24 speed gearbox won't increase your top speed it will just give you more options for speed. That's all honky dory if you are a farmer and need specific speeds down the the tenth of a mph. But for blowing I don't see any benefit over the standard 8/8 or 12/12.

I also think you'd get by just fine with a T4050.

Niege, can you explain why you went with a T6020 instead of a T4050? There is only a 10 PTO HP difference. But a significant price difference. So what makes the T6020 so much better for this use?

OrganicsL&L
02-13-2011, 11:01 AM
This has been the best thread ever IMO. We are close to adding a 160 unit Town Home Association this next season and are planning to do it with a tractor and blower. This thread has been priceless. Thanks to all those who input and to the OP.

Blowerman, how is the PXPL holding up? That is one awesome looking rig by the way! Ever find it too big? The reason I ask it that the HOA's we are likely adding are tight and the garages have a common drive with garage doors facing each other.

Neige, over the years what does your experience tell you for reliability of tractor brands? Has one been better than others? And are there tractor add-ons or options that are so much more productive that you just couldn't live without it anymore? I need this new machine to be productive and easy to use for the long haul.

Thanks-
Dan

I agree on the thread assessment! In fact, I need to be thinking grass and I am still more focused on the white stuff! Thanks to you all for some great info and encouragement!

MogMan
02-13-2011, 11:16 AM
I don't think the 24 speed gear box is necessary for what we're looking to do. Niege may be able to comment with more experience. The 24 speed gearbox won't increase your top speed it will just give you more options for speed. That's all honky dory if you are a farmer and need specific speeds down the the tenth of a mph. But for blowing I don't see any benefit over the standard 8/8 or 12/12.


I do have some acreage, where the tractor would be useful and a beneficial companion to the mog. I priced the 24 speed only to get an idea of the max price to pay when new. You are right, the 16 speed would be enough, but the 50kph option is a must for me though. Some of my account are spaced out a bit too much to my liking. I could also drop them for next season.

NicholasMWhite
02-13-2011, 11:23 AM
I do have some acreage, where the tractor would be useful and a beneficial companion to the mog. I priced the 24 speed only to get an idea of the max price to pay when new. You are right, the 16 speed would be enough, but the 50kph option is a must for me though. Some of my account are spaced out a bit too much to my liking. I could also drop them for next season.

Yeah to the best of my knowledge the 50KPH option is not available on the T4000 series. The top speed of that is 24MPH or just under 40KPH. The 50KPH sure would be nice in certain instances. I plan to have a very tight route such as niege's. There will be about 4 miles to and from the neighborhood I'll be doing business in. But that comes out to 10 minutes at the top speed and I can live with that.

ProTouchGrounds
02-13-2011, 11:52 AM
Ive been looking at the kubotas because there alot of low hour units (<1000) only 2-3yrs old within a close range to me. Plus there is a substantial kubota dealer presence by me. From what i understand they are not the fastest at around 20-24mph but i will operate 98% of the time on 25mph roads, with two short runs on a 35mph road.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread it is a prime example of how plowsite is an invaluable tool to snow removal

blowerman
02-13-2011, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=NLS1;1240051
Blowerman, how is the PXPL holding up? That is one awesome looking rig by the way! Ever find it too big? The reason I ask it that the HOA's we are likely adding are tight and the garages have a common drive with garage doors facing each other.

Thanks-
Dan[/QUOTE]

The Pronovost brand is a very solid product. My PXPL has held up with no break downs in almost 3 winters. We did bend the blower housing on it though. I'm still trying to take some pictures of it to show guys no matter how well things are build, you still might need to modify them. With snowy weather taking a break this week, I'm taking it into a frame straightening shop middle of this week to have the bend taken out. When it's fixed we are going to add stronger gussets between the housing and impeller area.

As far as tight areas go, the TV tractors are very agile. The one problem you need to look at is clearance over the cab. Sometimes trees hang low and you don' t want somebody smashing tree limbs into the cab at 2:00 a.m. and breaking out windows. If the area for blowing snow is limited, the guys can just pull the snow out with the back drag blade and then blow somewhere else. I believe Neige has videos of inverted blowers where they pull snow and then turn on the blowers farther down the driveways.

MogMan
02-13-2011, 01:14 PM
If the area for blowing snow is limited, the guys can just pull the snow out with the back drag blade and then blow somewhere else.

I do that all the time, works great. You can pull a fair amount of snow before it spills out. some of my accounts are with parkings in an interior court, where I can't blow. I then drag the snow out and blow it on the front of the property. The blower can also be used to move piles of snow while reversing. The back of the blower is not straight but does the job. I am working on a permanent blade/flat surface for the back of thy blower to fix this issue. I have to go out tonight so I'll make a couple vids of those situations.

MogMan
02-14-2011, 12:26 AM
Just uploaded some vids of me clearing some accounts with the Pronovost inverted blower.

Pushing back some snow piles with an inverted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESmRwFDQooM

Stacking snow, to clear an alley, sloppy job:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU5hEq2qAn0



BTW sorry for the choppy audio, seems that i messed with the sample rate when converting my vids. Ill reupload new vids to correct this

Triple L
02-14-2011, 06:10 AM
I don't think the 24 speed gear box is necessary for what we're looking to do. Niege may be able to comment with more experience. The 24 speed gearbox won't increase your top speed it will just give you more options for speed. That's all honky dory if you are a farmer and need specific speeds down the the tenth of a mph. But for blowing I don't see any benefit over the standard 8/8 or 12/12.

I also think you'd get by just fine with a T4050.

Niege, can you explain why you went with a T6020 instead of a T4050? There is only a 10 PTO HP difference. But a significant price difference. So what makes the T6020 so much better for this use?

In a deere the 16X16 only does 30K, u get that trans in the cheaper D series... The 24X24 gets you up to 40k so yes the # of gears does increase your overall speed...

NicholasMWhite
02-14-2011, 09:21 AM
In a deere the 16X16 only does 30K, u get that trans in the cheaper D series... The 24X24 gets you up to 40k so yes the # of gears does increase your overall speed...

I don't know exactly what model you're referring to but lets stick to apples to apples here. If you have the same series tractor with multiple options such as the Kubota M9540 which offers an 8/8 a 12/12 and a 24/24 they will all have the same top speed.

That's like saying my 6 speed V8 camaro is faster than my 5 speed V6 camaro. Thank God for that extra gear.

But I'll rephrase my comment: in MOST cases more gears does not mean a higher top speed. And that is the case with the New Holland tractors I was referring to while making the comment.

Triple L
02-14-2011, 11:35 AM
I don't know exactly what model you're referring to but lets stick to apples to apples here. If you have the same series tractor with multiple options such as the Kubota M9540 which offers an 8/8 a 12/12 and a 24/24 they will all have the same top speed.

That's like saying my 6 speed V8 camaro is faster than my 5 speed V6 camaro. Thank God for that extra gear.

But I'll rephrase my comment: in MOST cases more gears does not mean a higher top speed. And that is the case with the New Holland tractors I was referring to while making the comment.

I was refering to Deere and the extra gears do make a big difference in top speed...

Transmission

Std. Transmission; Forward/Reverse PowrQuad PLUS 16/16 (19 mph/ 30 kmh) w/ PowerTech Plus (4-valve) engine

Opt. Transmission; Forward/Reverse PowrQuad PLUS 16/16 (19 mph/ 30 kmh) w/ PowerTech E (2-valve); AutoQuad PLUS 24/24 (25 mph/ 40kmh) w/ PowerTech Plus (4-valve); IVT (25 mph/ 40 kmh) w/ PowerTech Plus (4-valve)

blowerman
02-14-2011, 12:17 PM
As long as we are on the tractor discussion: What do guys feel is the most ergonomic layout in a tractor when it comes to running a inverted blower?
Does anyone have any experience with the IVT in the newer Deere's ?

MogMan
02-15-2011, 06:37 PM
I re-uploaded my last 2 vids since the sounds was awful on the first try

Pushing back snow piles with an inverted :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBGcIWvwAg

Blowing snow through a narrow alley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIoHlU1tNwI

Neige
02-15-2011, 07:08 PM
As long as we are on the tractor discussion: What do guys feel is the most ergonomic layout in a tractor when it comes to running a inverted blower?
Does anyone have any experience with the IVT in the newer Deere's ?


I have had no experiance but those that have cant stop talking about them.

I re-uploaded my last 2 vids since the sounds was awful on the first try

Pushing back snow piles with an inverted :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBGcIWvwAg

Blowing snow through a narrow alley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIoHlU1tNwI

Nice MogMan keep em coming

Neige
02-15-2011, 07:10 PM
Here is my latest one. At least there is a little more daylight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGf54HkSA5A

NicholasMWhite
02-15-2011, 10:44 PM
Here is my latest one. At least there is a little more daylight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGf54HkSA5A

These videos are great. I can't thank you and Mogman enough for the inspiration. You two have kept this thread alive and informative.

I'm curious to know what advertising you did when you were at your quickest growth period. I know your dad started doing this LONG ago and you have worked your way into the business. But when you started to really grow fast how was it done? Were you getting more calls than you could handle so you just added tractors as necessary? Or did you decide one day that you were going to grow significantly and marketed to meet a specific goal?

I hope this isn't a stupid question.

Neige
02-16-2011, 06:15 AM
These videos are great. I can't thank you and Mogman enough for the inspiration. You two have kept this thread alive and informative.

I'm curious to know what advertising you did when you were at your quickest growth period. I know your dad started doing this LONG ago and you have worked your way into the business. But when you started to really grow fast how was it done? Were you getting more calls than you could handle so you just added tractors as necessary? Or did you decide one day that you were going to grow significantly and marketed to meet a specific goal?

I hope this isn't a stupid question.

I think these are great questions. Our driveway signs with our name and phone is proving to be the best way to attract new clients. Give your clients a quality service at a reasonable price and they decide they just don't want to shovel. Our biggest growth spurts have been buying up the competition we have done that 3 times now. ( By the way all these guys that have sold have come to us and asked if we were interested in buying them. Not one of them did we force them to get out, they were all just tired of the hours and the difficulties of running a snow company.The other was when a lowballer came into town and priced everything 50% less than us. We lost maybe 5 % of our clients but the guy picked up 300 new clients in my area. Well the first big storm we get and he is a no show. All these people decided they were not shoveling and we got around 225 of them. Called up our local tractor dealer, bought a new tractor and blower and away we went. If you are really interested I did a webinar for SIMA last spring that goes into great detail on how we run our snow company. I have been told its very informative. http://webinars.sima.org/session.php?id=3904
I believe anyone who is thinking of starting residential with a tractor / blower in a market where no one else has this system in place is going to do very well.

NicholasMWhite
02-16-2011, 08:34 AM
I think these are great questions. Our driveway signs with our name and phone is proving to be the best way to attract new clients. Give your clients a quality service at a reasonable price and they decide they just don't want to shovel. Our biggest growth spurts have been buying up the competition we have done that 3 times now. ( By the way all these guys that have sold have come to us and asked if we were interested in buying them. Not one of them did we force them to get out, they were all just tired of the hours and the difficulties of running a snow company.The other was when a lowballer came into town and priced everything 50% less than us. We lost maybe 5 % of our clients but the guy picked up 300 new clients in my area. Well the first big storm we get and he is a no show. All these people decided they were not shoveling and we got around 225 of them. Called up our local tractor dealer, bought a new tractor and blower and away we went. If you are really interested I did a webinar for SIMA last spring that goes into great detail on how we run our snow company. I have been told its very informative. http://webinars.sima.org/session.php?id=3904
I believe anyone who is thinking of starting residential with a tractor / blower in a market where no one else has this system in place is going to do very well.

I have to ask: how long is that webinar? Although I am VERY interested and hold your advice at a very high level, $100+ is a significant investment.

MogMan
02-16-2011, 09:38 AM
Neige

Would you be able to post a few pictures of the cutting edges you have installed?

Do you counter sink your bolts so they don't rub on the driveways?

Thanks
Dylan


It was greasing time yesterday so I took a couple pics of the cutting edge.

The uneven wear was caused by a poor adjustment of my 3-point hitch.

This wear is from around 58hours of snow removal, travelling time included. Can't tell how much of those 58 hours were spend with the edge on the ground, I calculate my hours from getting out of the house to coming back in.

The holes are countersunk but can't give out more details since I haven't taken the whole edge off yet.

blowerman
02-16-2011, 11:33 AM
Mogman, I was able to run my blower for two seasons before the edge wore off. (don't have hours calculated) This November I had a local machine shop make me a new AR400 edge that they had to plasma cut the holes and use a drill to make the counter sunk part. Total cost $150. The new bolts were plow bolts from a local supplier.
The uneven wear has been a problem for me as well. I've tried to make adjustments but still wears more on one side than the other.

MogMan
02-16-2011, 12:20 PM
Mogman, I was able to run my blower for two seasons before the edge wore off. (don't have hours calculated) This November I had a local machine shop make me a new AR400 edge that they had to plasma cut the holes and use a drill to make the counter sunk part. Total cost $150. The new bolts were plow bolts from a local supplier.
The uneven wear has been a problem for me as well. I've tried to make adjustments but still wears more on one side than the other.

I hope that the holes are countersunk on the flip side too. This way I could flip it/ rorate it for next season. Since I got the 4" cutting edge, the holes are centered. This would potentially give me 4 years of use out of the OEM cutting edge, as quoted by the dealer. Neige uses Tivar, buys a 4'x8' sheet and cuts it. A sheet like that cost around 1300$. A good deal if you have a bunch of tractors. Personnaly, i dont do pavers so I will stick to steel.

Neige
02-16-2011, 04:28 PM
I have to ask: how long is that webinar? Although I am VERY interested and hold your advice at a very high level, $100+ is a significant investment.

Its around 1 hr long, pm me I might have one I can send you.

Here is a video of an operator vies using a Kubota M110 and Shoule inverted blower.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3DsKKLRC-s

NicholasMWhite
02-16-2011, 04:36 PM
Its around 1 hr long, pm me I might have one I can send you.

Here is a video of an operator vies using a Kubota M110 and Shoule inverted blower.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3DsKKLRC-s

He said there was 2 feet of snow and he blew through it in one pass quite quickly. Was it really 2 feet of snow or was he just referencing the windrow left from the municipal plow?

Herm Witte
02-16-2011, 05:28 PM
He said there was 2 feet of snow and he blew through it in one pass quite quickly. Was it really 2 feet of snow or was he just referencing the windrow left from the municipal plow?

Nicholas,

The blower with tractor is awesome. I also did a drive with about 1.5 - 2 feet of snow in it and a heavy windrow from the street plows - the video does not lie. We use the Shoule on a JD 5083. Awesome equipment.

NicholasMWhite
02-16-2011, 05:44 PM
Nicholas,

The blower with tractor is awesome. I also did a drive with about 1.5 - 2 feet of snow in it and a heavy windrow from the street plows - the video does not lie. We use the Shoule on a JD 5083. Awesome equipment.

The speed is just amazing

Golfpro21
02-16-2011, 05:45 PM
Hi Herm

Is that a JD 5083 E 69 PTO hp

one of the JD dealers in my area said that model would not hold upto snow blowing with a big blower as far as hydrolics

CAn you give any feedback

RAZOR
02-16-2011, 07:22 PM
Paul

Are you high range the entire time while blowing the snow? It appears to me that you are. Are you feathering the clutch or do you find it it slow enough? I found on my M9000 that 1st gear in high range was too fast and jerky in driveways. The push button powershift is sweet.

Neige
02-16-2011, 07:38 PM
Paul

Are you high range the entire time while blowing the snow? It appears to me that you are. Are you feathering the clutch or do you find it it slow enough? I found on my M9000 that 1st gear in high range was too fast and jerky in driveways. The push button powershift is sweet.

I was working in high 1, and not once did i feather the clutch. The SHoule blower just eats up the snow so quickly. We own 6 Kubota 9000s and are good with the speed. I must admit once you go to powershift its hard to go back.

Neige
02-16-2011, 07:41 PM
Nicholas,

The blower with tractor is awesome. I also did a drive with about 1.5 - 2 feet of snow in it and a heavy windrow from the street plows - the video does not lie. We use the Shoule on a JD 5083. Awesome equipment.

Herm I am just trilled that the tractor / blower is working out for you. :drinkup:

ProTouchGrounds
02-16-2011, 07:52 PM
Neige, is there any particular reasons you have decided to go with pronovost over the other two big names? just curious as ive pretty much decided on make/model of tractor now i need to decide on the blower.

i believe in pronovost b/c of your fleet, what do you have to say about shoule and normand? Image has given me a quote on a 92" normand w/ hydro backblade. I am also interested in the Shoule units, any input on those or the normands?

NicholasMWhite
02-17-2011, 12:02 AM
Neige, is there any particular reasons you have decided to go with pronovost over the other two big names? just curious as ive pretty much decided on make/model of tractor now i need to decide on the blower.

i believe in pronovost b/c of your fleet, what do you have to say about shoule and normand? Image has given me a quote on a 92" normand w/ hydro backblade. I am also interested in the Shoule units, any input on those or the normands?

Paul was buying just Pronovost (the red blowers he has). But all the new one's he's been getting have been Shoule (the yellow blowers he has). If I recall he said the quality is very similar. I think he said the Shoule's have the drive chain in an oil bath so they don't have to lube the chain after each use. Maybe he can elaborate further on why he chose the Shoule's.

DaySpring Services
02-17-2011, 06:15 AM
My Shoule is simply awesome so far. I have 55 hours on my tractor this season and most of them are probably actually blowing. I haven't had a single problem yet, however I wish Shoule had a better shoe (like pronovost or normand) and offered poly edges.

Has anyone had any problems with damaged to driveways due to the weight of the machines? I've noticed one lot has some areas that have sunk and the newer lot (3 years old) is cracking where the seams are from the paver. I wasn't sure if it's the weight of my machine (it does have cast-iron wheels) or if it was just because of how bad our winter was.

For the guys looking for poly cutting edges, I found this website http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=868&parentcatid=795 I haven't ordered from them yet, but I'm going to try a 1 inch UHMW edge and copy the factory shoes in 1.5 Inch I just need to figure out how tall the shoes were new. I don't feel like ordering a pair just to use as a template.

Neige
02-17-2011, 06:40 AM
Neige, is there any particular reasons you have decided to go with pronovost over the other two big names? just curious as ive pretty much decided on make/model of tractor now i need to decide on the blower.

i believe in pronovost b/c of your fleet, what do you have to say about shoule and normand? Image has given me a quote on a 92" normand w/ hydro backblade. I am also interested in the Shoule units, any input on those or the normands?


Back in the days when we started, Pronovost bought out Bervac the original maker of the blower. We just stuck with Pronovost because we were always satisfied with the quality. I know lots of guys that use Normand and are very satisfied with them. I went with SHoule because I liked some of the chages they made, and the fact they make incredible pushers. There was some issue with the SHoule, but they have since fixed it. We modified our SHoule so that we could attach a poly blade under the blower sitting flat like all our other blowers. We find that the SHoule really eats up the snow well and leaves very little trails when blowing large amounts of snow. We also finds it leaves less snow on the street, thus having to drag it down the street less far.

Paul was buying just Pronovost (the red blowers he has). But all the new one's he's been getting have been Shoule (the yellow blowers he has). If I recall he said the quality is very similar. I think he said the Shoule's have the drive chain in an oil bath so they don't have to lube the chain after each use. Maybe he can elaborate further on why he chose the Shoule's.

That is one feature we have really liked.

My Shoule is simply awesome so far. I have 55 hours on my tractor this season and most of them are probably actually blowing. I haven't had a single problem yet, however I wish Shoule had a better shoe (like pronovost or normand) and offered poly edges.

Has anyone had any problems with damaged to driveways due to the weight of the machines? I've noticed one lot has some areas that have sunk and the newer lot (3 years old) is cracking where the seams are from the paver. I wasn't sure if it's the weight of my machine (it does have cast-iron wheels) or if it was just because of how bad our winter was.

For the guys looking for poly cutting edges, I found this website http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=868&parentcatid=795 I haven't ordered from them yet, but I'm going to try a 1 inch UHMW edge and copy the factory shoes in 1.5 Inch I just need to figure out how tall the shoes were new. I don't feel like ordering a pair just to use as a template.

DaySpring, I am sure its not the weight of the blower. The heaving and sinking is caused by the weather and frost in the ground. I have been just so busy hauling and clearing snow I have had no time to properly measure a shoe for you. I will do my best for this weekend.

DaySpring Services
02-17-2011, 07:11 AM
Thanks Paul, My thought was the frost as well. There's alot of heaving in my area this year, however this is my first season with the tractor and it left me a little scared. I appreciate you taking time to measure the shoe as well, no hurry. We have 50 degree weather right now.

blowerman
02-17-2011, 07:43 AM
Has anyone had any problems with damaged to driveways due to the weight of the machines? I've noticed one lot has some areas that have sunk and the newer lot (3 years old) is cracking where the seams are from the paver. I wasn't sure if it's the weight of my machine (it does have cast-iron wheels) or if it was just because of how bad our winter was.


I don't know the weight of everyone's blower tractor set ups, but if you would compare them to a bigger skid loader or one ton truck with plow and salter, it's probably not that much different.
One of my bigger condo projects had a bright idea that my skid loader and blower was causing damage to driveways because of weight and the metal cutting edge.
The year of comparison I had a Bobcat S185 with 66" blower that weighted in under 7K lbs.
All of my trucks scaled at the local pit were much more than that.
As for the Bi-directional tractor, it's a heavier unit. WIth blower, tractor, & wheel weights it's close to 20k lbs.
The plastic edges have been a never ending issue. On skid loader blowers, regardless of the type of plastic/poly material I've tried, none has held up very long. Changing out a edge wouldn't be a problem, but if you are getting continual snow in the course of a week, there isn't much time to change a worn edge, cut off bolts that have ground in half or do any other "new edge" fabrication. So, skid blowers have gone back to metal edges.

The PXPL has a AR400 edge on the bottom of the blower that lasts about two seasons on average. (and for mogman, the holes are only sunk on one side.) I had the poly edge put on the pull back blade incase I need to drag a driveway that can't have metal on it. It's held up quite well, that would be three seasons. I'm replacing it for next year.

DaySpring Services
02-17-2011, 07:49 AM
The M100 with standard wheels weighs 8,863lbs, the blower weighs 1,960lbs, I'm not sure how much the cast iron wheels weigh. That put me at 10,823lbs with standard wheels.

My truck with plow, and a loaded salter probably weighs somewhere between 9-9500lbs.

Neige
02-17-2011, 08:07 AM
Some people will try and blame you for everything. Lets face it we have had some serious cold spells. I think the frost line is 3 feet deep in many areas. So I explain to the client the the asphalt is sitting on a 3 foot solid piece of ice. There is no way I will ever be able to mike that heave or sink. Now that 3 foot of ice, that will play havoc with your parking lots. Add some thaw, and this water has no where to go. I am seeing potholes early this year that could swallow a smart car.

NLS1
02-18-2011, 08:42 AM
The Pronovost brand is a very solid product. My PXPL has held up with no break downs in almost 3 winters. We did bend the blower housing on it though. I'm still trying to take some pictures of it to show guys no matter how well things are build, you still might need to modify them. With snowy weather taking a break this week, I'm taking it into a frame straightening shop middle of this week to have the bend taken out. When it's fixed we are going to add stronger gussets between the housing and impeller area.

As far as tight areas go, the TV tractors are very agile. The one problem you need to look at is clearance over the cab. Sometimes trees hang low and you don' t want somebody smashing tree limbs into the cab at 2:00 a.m. and breaking out windows. If the area for blowing snow is limited, the guys can just pull the snow out with the back drag blade and then blow somewhere else. I believe Neige has videos of inverted blowers where they pull snow and then turn on the blowers farther down the driveways.

Hey Blowerman thanks for the info, hadn't thought much about overhead clearance, good tip. Glad to hear the blower is doing well for you. This is likely the blower I will get regardless of the tractor brand. For our long term goals it would be ideal. Too bad about the bent housing, but that is sometimes unavoidable. What is the life expectancy of the pxpl? Is it the 15 years that I hear others talking about for the regular inverted blowers?
Assuming very tight routing, what do you figure is the maximum number of drives that could be done in a 4-5 hour cycle with the TV and pxpl? Standard two to three car wide with 20-40 foot lengths are our norm. Thanks-Dan

DaySpring Services
02-18-2011, 11:22 AM
For the Shoule users, I've heard of a couple guys shearing the 4 bolts of on the pto at the blower. In the nice weather we have been having I pulled the bolts out (which are grade 5) and noticed very slight bending of the bolts. I replaced them with stronger grade 8 bolts. Do you the stronger bolts will be strong enough or should I plan on getting it welded over the summer?

Herm Witte
02-18-2011, 11:33 AM
For the Shoule users, I've heard of a couple guys shearing the 4 bolts of on the pto at the blower. In the nice weather we have been having I pulled the bolts out (which are grade 5) and noticed very slight bending of the bolts. I replaced them with stronger grade 8 bolts. Do you the stronger bolts will be strong enough or should I plan on getting it welded over the summer?

Shoule has a fix for that issue. FYI, we broke grade 8 bolts on ours as well as the original grade 5 bolts. After reassembly we chose to tack-weld weld the area together as a short term fix which I would recommend that you do as well and then have your dealer get the redesigned part or get it from Shoule directly. In our case it is warranty. The redesign takes care of the issue you describe. You'll be pleased.

Neige
02-18-2011, 11:41 AM
Shoule has a fix for that issue. FYI, we broke grade 8 bolts on ours as well as the original grade 5 bolts. After reassembly we chose to tack-weld weld the area together as a short term fix which I would recommend that you do as well and then have your dealer get the redesigned part or get it from Shoule directly. In our case it is warranty. The redesign takes care of the issue you describe. You'll be pleased.

We just got ours last week, and what an improvement. The bolts go all the way through just like every other manufacturer. That spline you bolt on I would be surprised if it ever will break, its solid. Very happy with the upgrade. Thumbs Up

DaySpring Services
02-18-2011, 12:01 PM
Are they replacing them for free or do I have to pay? Either way I'll eventually upgrade.

Neige
02-18-2011, 12:11 PM
Hey Blowerman thanks for the info, hadn't thought much about overhead clearance, good tip. Glad to hear the blower is doing well for you. This is likely the blower I will get regardless of the tractor brand. For our long term goals it would be ideal. Too bad about the bent housing, but that is sometimes unavoidable. What is the life expectancy of the pxpl? Is it the 15 years that I hear others talking about for the regular inverted blowers?
Assuming very tight routing, what do you figure is the maximum number of drives that could be done in a 4-5 hour cycle with the TV and pxpl? Standard two to three car wide with 20-40 foot lengths are our norm. Thanks-Dan

Dan I just want to comment on the longevity of a blower. I would rather say 7 years, and then you need to do some serious changes to the blower. Remember if you are doing around 150 drives with 20 outings and 3 passes per outing that's 9000 driveways a year. In 7 years that's 63 thousand drives. Now that may be extreme, but it gives you an idea of the abuse that the blower will take. Remember this is taken from our way of working.

Herm Witte
02-18-2011, 12:17 PM
Are they replacing them for free or do I have to pay? Either way I'll eventually upgrade.

I would make an assumption here but that question is best asked of and answered by your dealer.

OrganicsL&L
02-18-2011, 12:41 PM
Neige,

Based on those numbers, the 3 passes/storm, I have a question. So a route takes 5hrs, are the tractors going out for 15 hrs per storm to get those 3 passes done?

blowerman
02-18-2011, 12:53 PM
Bobcat blower picked up a 6-8" rock. Made it past the auger and slammed into the impeller hard enough to cause a big crack.
This is a example why blowers are quick, but when you pick up hidden objects things break.
A plow and you'd just make a monster pile, with the rock buried in it.
The never ending pressure of snow has also caused the blower shoot to separate from base. We will make a new one in summer, for now it has a bad "in the field" weld job.

blowerman
02-18-2011, 12:58 PM
Support arm of PXPL blower. Sorry, bad picture but it hopefully gives you the idea.
The bend arm should be straight!

OrganicsL&L
02-18-2011, 01:39 PM
Impressive work blowerman!

Neige
02-18-2011, 01:59 PM
Are they replacing them for free or do I have to pay? Either way I'll eventually upgrade.

DaySpring I had not noticed your question. It most definately will be covered by SHoule. Go see your dealer, and if you have any problems let me know.

NicholasMWhite
02-18-2011, 03:15 PM
DaySpring I had not noticed your question. It most definately will be covered by SHoule. Go see your dealer, and if you have any problems let me know.

Paul,

I was wondering if you could answer two questions for me.

First: Do you use weights on your tractors at all? Be it weights on the front or wheel weights?

Second: It is my understanding that you recently purchased a newer New Holland T6020. I was wondering why did you decide on the T6020 instead of the T4050 being that they have similar HP levels but a $10,000+ price difference? I know there are other difference, but specifically for the use of snow blowing what are the difference that made you decide on the T6020 despite the cost difference?

BDEMOTT
02-21-2011, 06:14 PM
This thread is amazing and probably up there with the most informative ones on this site.

Has anyone had any experience with a meteor inverted blower? I went to the local kubota dealer and he brought out the paper work on it and i was shocked at how low the price was considering a shoule or pronovost run near the 10k mark. Im talking that it was around 4k less cheeper than those. Kinda scares me but trying to keep this project within budget is going to be mush easier with this blower. Will it hold up for atleast idk 4 seasons? I am a big beleiver in you get what you pay for just wondering what anyones opinion is on the matter. I am in the process of puttin a plan together next year for residentials and im considering using a tractor blower concept to maximize efficientcy.

also Neige this question is for you, Do your m9000's have hyd. shuttle or not, and should i make this a necesity when purchasing a tractor?

gottabediesel
02-21-2011, 07:41 PM
Great thread. Like to add a few thought as we started a couple of years ago and tried to save money by using lighter blowers, used blowers and even rebuilding our own blowers. We tried 6, 7 and 8 foot pronovost, roberge, meteor, smytth, normand and bobcat blowers even the original reversable prototype Avalanche from Anderson. Spend the extra or you may just end up with an expensive pull plow for a storm, especially if you have no backups or you aren't't driving the rig yourself. Also, think about matching the blower to the tractor. I ran a 5030 kubota with a 1600 lb that was was too heavy and we also ran a lighter blower on a 6000 series John Deere and had to weld, bolt or repair something every storm cause it would get torn off. Meteor blowers are fine for compact tractors (had one) but if the one you mentioned is $4000 less than the others it won't stand up behind a M series kubota. Also the tolerances are much tighter on the better blowers meaning much less clogging in wet snow, infact the pronovost and normands we have will blow water like its snow.

IMAGE
02-21-2011, 11:10 PM
Great thread. Like to add a few thought as we started a couple of years ago and tried to save money by using lighter blowers, used blowers and even rebuilding our own blowers. We tried 6, 7 and 8 foot pronovost, roberge, meteor, smytth, normand and bobcat blowers even the original reversable prototype Avalanche from Anderson. Spend the extra or you may just end up with an expensive pull plow for a storm, especially if you have no backups or you aren't't driving the rig yourself. Also, think about matching the blower to the tractor. I ran a 5030 kubota with a 1600 lb that was was too heavy and we also ran a lighter blower on a 6000 series John Deere and had to weld, bolt or repair something every storm cause it would get torn off. Meteor blowers are fine for compact tractors (had one) but if the one you mentioned is $4000 less than the others it won't stand up behind a M series kubota. Also the tolerances are much tighter on the better blowers meaning much less clogging in wet snow, infact the pronovost and normands we have will blow water like its snow.

Very Cool! And great first post, welcome to the site! :waving::drinkup:

I'll speak for everyone: I'd love to see some pics of your equipment. :nod:

DaySpring Services
02-22-2011, 06:46 AM
BDEMOTT I would definitely go with a shuttle shift tractor. It will save alot of time plus wear and tear on the clutch.

As for the Meteor snow blowers, They look to be built alot cheaper that Shoule, Normand, or provonost blowers. A quick look at the specs tell me they weigh half the amount of the big 3. That alone tells me enough.

gottabediesel
02-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Thanks steve,

I'm between machines since the toolcat but heres the latest project.

Willie

NicholasMWhite
02-22-2011, 06:52 PM
Thanks steve,

I'm between machines since the toolcat but heres the latest project.

Willie

There's one way to get into this cheap. I like it. How much do you have into it total? If you don't mind me askIng.

gottabediesel
02-22-2011, 07:34 PM
less than the $25,000 they go for, but I've just about replaced and repaired everything as it was beaten like a rented mule. The Ford 9030s are the same, but they are in the 30-35000 range and then the TVs go from 50,000 and up. Its got 100 hp at the PTO and hydrostatic which is just about perfect for snow except the ground speed. This is a concept machine that we're trying some ideas out on. definitely not a first line piece yet, but I got a smokin loud radio in it.

thatlittleguy?
02-22-2011, 08:55 PM
less than the $25,000 they go for, but I've just about replaced and repaired everything as it was beaten like a rented mule. The Ford 9030s are the same, but they are in the 30-35000 range and then the TVs go from 50,000 and up. Its got 100 hp at the PTO and hydrostatic which is just about perfect for snow except the ground speed. This is a concept machine that we're trying some ideas out on. definitely not a first line piece yet, but I got a smokin loud radio in it.


How do you like the versatile? I have a line on one with low (relatively) hours that hasn't been beaten too badly. I was thinking that machine with a pxpl on it would be the cats meow for a tight route of residentials.

IMAGE
02-22-2011, 10:28 PM
Thanks for the pics Willie, looks like a fun project! Do you service all residentials with that setup? (and with the previous TC?)

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 12:14 AM
My first post so I hope I do it right. We use mostly Versatile 256/276, 9030 and TV 140's for our work and find they work great. Hey gottabediesel just wondering where in you are in Canada. If you have any questions about your Versatile let me know and I will try to help, I always get calls from people with questions about them as we have over 20 years experience with them. I try to load some pics of our equipment when I figure out how to resize my pics.

blowerman
02-23-2011, 06:46 AM
How do you like the versatile? I have a line on one with low (relatively) hours that hasn't been beaten too badly. I was thinking that machine with a pxpl on it would be the cats meow for a tight route of residentials.

The versatile tractors are a high maintenance item. They work great, but lots of little issues with older ones. Another issue is the low production of units, not every dealer is familiar with how to fix them of even have parts.

gottabediesel
02-23-2011, 10:36 AM
thatlittleguy?

How do you like the versatile? I have a line on one with low (relatively) hours that hasn't been beaten too badly. I was thinking that machine with a pxpl on it would be the cats meow for a tight route of residentials.


The older 150,160 and 256 versatiles had some issues but the 276 had pretty well everything worked out, so much that the ford 9030 was the same tractor with a different paint job for 10 years until new holland bought them and made the TV series. Can't say I agree someones point with high maintenance, but time will tell. Interesting point about dealers though, I bought it because I was tired of begging someone to fix a machine. The versatiles and fords can be wrenched on by anyone with mechanical aptitude and there are no hardware upgrades that will leave your tractor sitting in a yard during a storm.

Having said that if I were starting again, I would still get a newer tractor with a solid blower after checking the local dealer's ability to answer and show up to repair your tractor.

we are trying it in hopes it can do commercial and residential. I had set the toolcat up for tight one pull residentials but we don't have enough to make it pay off through an entire route with doubles as well.

I keep reading about the pxpl. Does anyone have one that finds the pricetag provides that much more productivity?

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Here's some pics of a few pieces of our snow equipment that we do residential and some small commercial with.

gottabediesel
02-23-2011, 01:44 PM
Here's some pics of a few pieces of our snow equipment that we do residential and some small commercial with.

Love it, I'm in ottawa, where in Ontario are you?

OrganicsL&L
02-23-2011, 02:15 PM
Ok, just stopped by the local orange dealer and here's what I was quoted:

M9540hoc 24-1

$52.5k w/tax. Doesn't include any specials or rebates because I won't be buying until fall. Another option they gave me is to lease the machine for 6 mos. for $6k, and then that will go towards a down payment on a purchase.

What do you all think of the pricing and the tractor. A little smaller than neige's m100's, so just getting all of my ducks in a row now before I get too crazy busy with spring work.

blowerman
02-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Organic,
The price seems reasonable. I'm not up on all of the pricing for Kubota's, as my preference is the New Holland or Deere. Currently I'm pricing out a Deere 6430 and New Holland to be matched with a Pronovost.
The leasing is fine, gives a down payment and $1k per month shouldn't be that hard to pay.

OrganicsL&L
02-23-2011, 04:10 PM
Thanks B-man. I will be buying the blower separate, and leasing the tractor. The sale guy came out and said that it will be less, but he can't say how much because all of the promotions will be different when I'm ready. Just a little worried whether that machine is large enough. Anybody with Kubota knowledge want to chime in?

DaySpring Services
02-23-2011, 04:41 PM
I paid right around 60g's for my M100 with loader. I wasn't looking for a loader but it was the about the same price with or without it. I financed the machine for 60 months a 0% through Kubota. The blower was $9200 if I remember right.

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 05:31 PM
Hey gottabediesel. We located west of Georgian Bay near Orillia. We've being doing driveways with tractors for over 30 years and got our first Versatile in1988 or 89 and still have it. We are finding some parts that were made just for Versatile are getting hard to get but just the other day someone told me you can get parts from the new Versatile dealers instead of New Holland and they are cheaper. When all our tractors are out there is 10 bi-directionals 4 regular tractors, 2 with pull type blowers and 2 with regular blowers. We also plow roads with 2 tandem trucks and have 1 pick-up as a service truck with a blade on it.

MogMan
02-23-2011, 05:57 PM
A bit OT but I think it might be relevant:

I had asked a couple guys how to lube the PTO driveline, the part that extend and retract (tube in tube). So instead of PMing back everybody, I decided to post it here. I took it out and found out the reason for the hole in the protection sleave. When you split the PTO drive shaft in 2, there is a plastic collar around the female part that has 3 zerks for greasing. So, there you go.



Also, I cant seem to reconnect the driveline to the blower. It's a ring that you pull back but I cant get past the 3 locking bearing, they won't let me go further.

What am I doing wrong ?

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 06:08 PM
MogMan. We had one that we couldn't get off and we found that the holes for the 3 bearings had gotten a burr on them and wouldn't let the bearings release from the locking groove. We also quit using grease to lube the slide as we found it to get thick and would pull on the locks to hard and damage the locks. We have switched to Fluid Film. Mabe a different winter grease would have worked too.

blowerman
02-23-2011, 06:10 PM
Mog Man, WIth the connection problem, have you tried cussing & swearing? Works every time for me. If not, a big hammer.
But really, do you have a burr?

MogMan
02-23-2011, 06:35 PM
MogMan. We had one that we couldn't get off and we found that the holes for the 3 bearings had gotten a burr on them and wouldn't let the bearings release from the locking groove. We also quit using grease to lube the slide as we found it to get thick and would pull on the locks to hard and damage the locks. We have switched to Fluid Film. Mabe a different winter grease would have worked too.

I'll spray some PB Blaster on those 3 bearing to see. I tried to push them in with a screwdriver, with the locking ring pulled back, but they wont sink-in flush. I prayed white lithium grease, good to -40, before finding the plastic zerk ring. I thought about fluid film but guessed it was too thin.

Should i try to ram it in somehow ?

MogMan
02-23-2011, 06:38 PM
Mog Man, WIth the connection problem, have you tried cussing & swearing? Works every time for me. If not, a big hammer.
But really, do you have a burr?

I did all that for the good part of an hour. I even pushed (kicked) a dog.

The bearing wont move enough with the ring pulled back. Could I have 3 burrs ?

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 06:45 PM
MogMan. You could have 3 burrs we had to take the sliding collar off to get ours to come off the shaft. To get the sliding collar off there is a spring clip on the end that you have to take off then the collar and the spring inside the collar can come off. The bearings should fall out then and if they don't that is likely where the problem is. You could hammer it on but you might not get it off again. One burr could stop it. PS don't loose the bearings.

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 06:48 PM
I forgot to show a pic of my newest tractor.

RAZOR
02-23-2011, 06:49 PM
Bi-directional

Is that your shop on the north side of Hwy 12?

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 07:16 PM
Razor. No that's another guy. When he started in the bussiness he came to se my dad about equipment to use and dad told him to use bi-directionals for blowing, so his first tractor was a 9030 and he's grown alot since then. At one point he had 45 pieces of snow equipment but is down abit in numbers now. We live aboout 10 miles from him.

RAZOR
02-23-2011, 07:21 PM
There was a Versatile that was for sale on the hwy between Stayner and Wasaga all last summer. Is that the one that ended up being your latest project?

blowerman
02-23-2011, 07:38 PM
bi-guy, any other details on the "boomer" tractor and blower?
Do you road that machine very far?

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 07:38 PM
Razor. My dad looked at it but we didn't really need another.

bi-directional
02-23-2011, 07:42 PM
Blowerman. We road it to our work but it's only about 8 miles from our house to the farthest driveway. It has the new IVT trans not a hydro so it's alittle faster on the road- 18mph compared to 14mph with the hydro in the old Boomers. We could use a better blower the one we have doesn't feed the fan fast enough. The only problem we have with the boomer is on big snow falls it has trouble getting over the windrow from the plow at the road while it's on the way out of the driveway. It always works with another tractor and it knocks down the windrow for him. We have a 70hp tractor with a pull type blower and it doesn't have any trouble.

gottabediesel
02-24-2011, 08:39 AM
Hi Bi directional,

I have some questions, could you PM (private message? think thats what it is called) with a contact phone number?

Willie

bi-directional
02-24-2011, 10:33 AM
Hi Bi directional,

I have some questions, could you PM (private message? think thats what it is called) with a contact phone number?

Willie

I think you need 10 posts before we can PM, so you need a couple more posts then we can PM.

MogMan
02-24-2011, 11:09 AM
MogMan. You could have 3 burrs we had to take the sliding collar off to get ours to come off the shaft. To get the sliding collar off there is a spring clip on the end that you have to take off then the collar and the spring inside the collar can come off. The bearings should fall out then and if they don't that is likely where the problem is. You could hammer it on but you might not get it off again. One burr could stop it. PS don't loose the bearings.


For the record, I was able to reconnect the PTO driveline.

The problem was a code 18, I wasn't pulling back on the right locking ring. I needed to pull on the ring at the extremity (metal) not the painted one (black/yellow). Both can be pulled back but only one works.

So there you go, I'm with stoopid

blowerman
02-24-2011, 11:17 AM
For the record, I was able to reconnect the PTO driveline.

The problem was a code 18, I wasn't pulling back on the right locking ring. I needed to pull on the ring at the extremity (metal) not the painted one (black/yellow). Both can be pulled back but only one works.

So there you go, I'm with stoopid

How long did you bang on the driveshaft before you figured it out? (hour or so)
Did you take it off to grease it?
Is the Pronovost holding up well?
If you had to buy another inverted blower, which one would it be?

MogMan
02-24-2011, 11:42 AM
How long did you bang on the driveshaft before you figured it out? (hour or so)
Did you take it off to grease it?
Is the Pronovost holding up well?
If you had to buy another inverted blower, which one would it be?

I thankfully didn't bang on it, but I was ready !

I took it off completely and took it apart to grease it because it it felt a bit slow going up.

I have nothing to say against the Pronovost, it's awesome ! I bent and bumped countless forged steel fence, chewed through hockey sticks and a garbage bag full of diaper, it's still holding up like a champ.

The only thing that I would and will modify is the back blade or lack of it in my case.

I will fab-up in the coming week a straight blade at the back, not hydraulic nor spring activated. It will be fixed and an inch higher that the bottom of the blower. WHen I back up to a fence, it leaves a nasty ski jump looking snow mound. Don't like it.

The shoule looks sharp but I dont know if it's better, probably the same. The only difference I see is the drivechain in an oil bath. Mechanically better and must be quieter too.

I would like to know the price difference with the Shoule. A thousand dollar more would be fair.

If Shoule users could post pics of their auger/drum combo, that would be great.

I could match pictures of my pronovost, so we could really compare.

DaySpring Services
02-24-2011, 12:22 PM
http://www.plowsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83422&stc=1&d=1289777091

RAZOR
02-24-2011, 01:15 PM
Mogman

Did you make those sheilds (guards) that sit on top of your blower or did they come with the blower? It looks like they would prevent chunks of ice from flying up and hitting the back window. I have never had the rear glass break but I could see it happening.

gottabediesel
02-24-2011, 02:18 PM
Bi Directional,

it looks like you are using a cylinder on the top of your 3 pt. on the bi directionals. do you have to adjust the angle that often?

MogMan
02-24-2011, 03:39 PM
Mogman

Did you make those sheilds (guards) that sit on top of your blower or did they come with the blower? It looks like they would prevent chunks of ice from flying up and hitting the back window. I have never had the rear glass break but I could see it happening.

The shields are OEM. Dont know if they are there to prevent stuff from leaving or entering this area.

NLS1
02-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Dan I just want to comment on the longevity of a blower. I would rather say 7 years, and then you need to do some serious changes to the blower. Remember if you are doing around 150 drives with 20 outings and 3 passes per outing that's 9000 driveways a year. In 7 years that's 63 thousand drives. Now that may be extreme, but it gives you an idea of the abuse that the blower will take. Remember this is taken from our way of working.

Thanks Paul, great info. That is a heck of a lot of driveways! Would you say it is past the point of return after those seven years, or with a few thousand bucks it would be good for another 7?

bi-directional
02-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Bi Directional,

it looks like you are using a cylinder on the top of your 3 pt. on the bi directionals. do you have to adjust the angle that often?

We run a hydraulic top link on all our regular blowers. We change them for going from paved or bricked driveways to gravel. Some of the gravel drives never freeze so we have to ajust for them. I would say that 20% of our drives are gravel.

blowerman
02-24-2011, 04:44 PM
Day spring, nice picture. How do you like the Shoule blower?

DaySpring Services
02-24-2011, 04:48 PM
Love the blower. I'm very impressed with how well it works. The only thing I wish they would do is make a better set of shoes and make it easier to put poly edges on.

blowerman
02-24-2011, 04:51 PM
First picture is of the temporary brace we put in between the snow this past week. I think we're going to wait until spring to do a final repair.
Second picture is one of my skidloader blowers that hooked a curb and peeled the cutting edge back like a old beer can top. It should be angled forward just in case you didn't know how it needed to look.

blowerman
02-24-2011, 04:58 PM
Since we are talking about skid shoes, my have wore down fairly quick this year. Not the biggest deal, we'll just have the bottoms re-welded. From the looks of it, my cutting edge is going to get replaced after this season.

NLS1
02-28-2011, 08:38 AM
Since we are talking about skid shoes, my have wore down fairly quick this year. Not the biggest deal, we'll just have the bottoms re-welded. From the looks of it, my cutting edge is going to get replaced after this season.

How many seasons do you get out of one cutting edge and skid shoes? Do you have them made at a local shop or do you buy from Pronovost when it is time for new ones?

ProTouchGrounds
03-01-2011, 02:59 PM
dayspring, on the shoule, i like how the distance from the auger to ground is small, on my front mount hydro its about 4" and I end up tilting the the blower forward to collect more snow at the end of the pass. did you end up going with a backblade and if so what kinds? could you snap a pic of it?

right now the backblade and price are the factors that will play in most in my decision between pronovost vs. normand vs. shoule as they are all quality blowers from what ive heard.

DaySpring Services
03-01-2011, 04:14 PM
The only disadvantage to that small gap between the auger is you really cant get a poly cutting edge on. The factory steel edge is only 3/8" thick. I'm going to try to squeeze either a 7/8 or 1" poly edge on. Right now I don't have a back blade but may end up picking one up over the summer.

sp6x6
03-03-2011, 09:41 PM
Daysprings, What skid where you running the SBX240 ON?

DaySpring Services
03-04-2011, 12:16 PM
I had a 2005 Bobcat S220 highflo. Sold it in the fall to buy the tractor.

StuveCorp
03-04-2011, 05:28 PM
Is there ever a problem blowing the snow on say a fluffy 1" accumulation?

Herm Witte
03-05-2011, 10:55 AM
Is there ever a problem blowing the snow on say a fluffy 1" accumulation?

Nope. Works great 1" - 16" - our experience this winter.

StuveCorp
03-05-2011, 05:26 PM
Nope. Works great 1" - 16" - our experience this winter.

When there is a lower accumulation do you just pull the snow out before turning on the blower?

I have read about every thread on the tractor/blower setups and really like the idea, I have always been involved doing bigger commercial stuff but am liking the 'Canadian Way'.

MogMan
03-05-2011, 05:57 PM
When there is a lower accumulation do you just pull the snow out before turning on the blower?

I have read about every thread on the tractor/blower setups and really like the idea, I have always been involved doing bigger commercial stuff but am liking the 'Canadian Way'.

Personnaly, I do both. I use the blower as a box scraper 75% of the time.

On the small accumulation, like you said, I drag it around until it starts spilling out then blow it. When the blower is filled up, you can even blow-out the content with the truck not moving. Once I reach the designated spot on the property, I unload there. My stuff may not apply to everybody because my contracts are downtown, not many 2 cars driveways on my run.

bellcon
03-06-2011, 07:22 AM
I'm not looking to start a brand war, but I'd like to know.

Paul, since you probably have more experience than anyone with these two brands, if money was not an issue which tractor do you like better, Kubota or New Holland? Or is it a toss up? Your opinion, your operator's opinon, your mechanic's opinion?

I run a 55 horse tractor with an 84" Blizzard 3ph blower for residential accounts but I'm considering upgrading. The up side of the smaller tractor is operating costs are very low, a little over one gallon per hours, but it's only three years old so time will tell how it will hold up.
Thanks, Scott

StuveCorp
03-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Okay, this thread has a lot of good info but what are the 'cons' of doing it this way? To me the money doesn't seem that bad compared to what we spend for summer equipment, are the blowers touchy(maintenance, clogs)? Are there used blowers out there not used up but cheaper to start with? I noticed Neige mentioned that the SHoule ran in oil so there would be less maintenance than the others? The only part that seems hard is getting the route tight enough and selling this concept to the market here.

I have always looked down on residential but bringing a commercial level or efficiency to residential may be something. We have many homes around the lake and while not as tight as how Neige and others have it there is quite a bit(2,000-3,000 homes, many clustered in 20-30 together). We get around 50-60" per season with a bunch of 1-2" events but this year had a 20" and around 10". How long of a route can be pulled off?

MogMan
03-08-2011, 09:11 AM
I noticed Neige mentioned that the SHoule ran in oil so there would be less maintenance than the others?


Here`s a couple pics of the drive chain on the pronovost. It's a bit exposed to the elements but haven't had any problems with it. Maintennance is spraying it with chain oil and checking the tensionner's spring length. I laced mine with FluidFilm.


Pics shows said chain from under and from the side. I also included pictures of the install location for their optional rear blade.


I am brainstorming a design for a bolted, fixed height rear blade, maybe 2 inches higher that the bottom of the blower.
I'm thinking "L" shape bracket made out of half-inch thick, 3" wide steel plate (same thickness as would-be blade). The actual rear blade would be 6" wide and 92" long.

blowerman
03-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Nice Pictures Mog,
Oil bath might be better, but like you, we just oil the chain after every use or two. Not much work.
After reading this thread, some of the bigger questions (most basic questions have been answered) would be tractor selection, blower selection, and reasons why!
I have New Holland, Kubota & Deere close by, so in my case: which one should I go with?
I'm currently running Pronovost, but I'm interested in the SHoule blower. I don't seem to have a dealer close by. My New Holland dealer became a Pronovost dealer for me to import the product, however they don't stock parts.
These are questions I have.

ProTouchGrounds
03-08-2011, 11:21 AM
the oil bath and back blade seem to make me lean towards the shoule, i havent heard any arguments towards normand, most likely b/c no one runs them, not b/c they are a bad blower.


i am leaning towards kubota for several reasons, dealer presence, abundance of affordable used units with low hours and proven track record.

MogMan
03-08-2011, 11:34 AM
I have New Holland, Kubota & Deere close by, so in my case: which one should I go with?


Neige will chime-in any minute now !

Im leaning toward NH, since Neige doesnt seem to have any problems with it. I have to say, that the only tractors I sat in, beside the one I got now, are NH. Also I like blue


I don't know why but I like the SHoule blower. It's a solid company, their Artic Blaster extendable blade are everywhere around here.

StuveCorp
03-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Thanks MogMan. I do think a back scrapping blade would be very helpful.

I would go for Case or NH for a tractor as either has dealer I can deal with. As for blowers it seems the Pronovost or SHoule may be more popular? Wouldn't mind hearing more about the Normand though.

I'm going to have to pony up to get Neige's SIMA dvd.

IMAGE
03-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Thanks MogMan. I do think a back scrapping blade would be very helpful.

I would go for Case or NH for a tractor as either has dealer I can deal with. As for blowers it seems the Pronovost or SHoule may be more popular? Wouldn't mind hearing more about the Normand though.

I'm going to have to pony up to get Neige's SIMA dvd.

What would you like to know about the Normand? I'm a dealer, and I'm aware there is not a lot of online media available for them. I'm working with them to get me more media including pics and video's so I can share with everyone. I am currently having a new website built that will showcase the different models of Normand Inverted Blowers, with pricing and option prices, I should have that up for everyone around the end of the month.

fyi, the pricing on a Normand through me for plowsite members is almost $2k cheaper then a comparable SHoule.

Neige
03-09-2011, 07:23 AM
Okay, this thread has a lot of good info but what are the 'cons' of doing it this way? To me the money doesn't seem that bad compared to what we spend for summer equipment, are the blowers touchy(maintenance, clogs)? Are there used blowers out there not used up but cheaper to start with? I noticed Neige mentioned that the SHoule ran in oil so there would be less maintenance than the others? The only part that seems hard is getting the route tight enough and selling this concept to the market here.

The blowers are pretty much low maintenance, similar to a pickup plow. Yes they will clog, depending on the types of snow. You can blast through huge amounts of snow no problem. Its when the snow is very wet, there is a learning curve on how not to block the chute. Yes the SHoule runs in an oil bath, so cuts down on some maintenance, but really its not more than two minutes to oil the chain. The SHoule also has a special chain binder, so you never have to adjust the tension so another thing to not have to think about.
As for selling this to a market, it pretty much sells itself. If you are in a market where people already have their drives plowed. You have a huge potential market that will want blowing over plowing. Once they see how clean and that there are not huge piles of pushed snow its an easy sell. Property damage becomes almost a non issue another great plus. I believe its the old idea of build it and they will come.

I have always looked down on residential but bringing a commercial level or efficiency to residential may be something. We have many homes around the lake and while not as tight as how Neige and others have it there is quite a bit(2,000-3,000 homes, many clustered in 20-30 together). We get around 50-60" per season with a bunch of 1-2" events but this year had a 20" and around 10". How long of a route can be pulled off?

In my market our routes ar 4 hours max. If you are in a market where there is very little competition you could strech it out to six hours. Really depends on what you sell to the client.

Nice Pictures Mog,
Oil bath might be better, but like you, we just oil the chain after every use or two. Not much work.
After reading this thread, some of the bigger questions (most basic questions have been answered) would be tractor selection, blower selection, and reasons why!
I have New Holland, Kubota & Deere close by, so in my case: which one should I go with?
I'm currently running Pronovost, but I'm interested in the SHoule blower. I don't seem to have a dealer close by. My New Holland dealer became a Pronovost dealer for me to import the product, however they don't stock parts.
These are questions I have.

Blower man its going to be hard to find dealers wanting to hold parts. Once they start selling lots more then they will hold some but again not all. In all honesty there are very few parts you need to keep in stock. I would always have a spare PTO shaft, spline that bolts to the blower fan, chain links if your chain should break, a spare hydraulic hose, and a couple of bearings. To be honest that only leaves the gear box which is rare if it ever goes and the shaft that goes from the gear box to the chain drive. I am giving an example of the inverted blower, I have no idea about the Xpro.

the oil bath and back blade seem to make me lean towards the shoule, i havent heard any arguments towards normand, most likely b/c no one runs them, not b/c they are a bad blower.
i am leaning towards kubota for several reasons, dealer presence, abundance of affordable used units with low hours and proven track record.

Sorry for the delay I have been very busy digging out of lots of snow this past week. I am a terriable salesman as you will soon see with this post. Yes I sell Pronovost and SHoule and think they are both excellent products. As for the Normand I have never used one but I know they fall into the same catagory as the Pronovost and SHoule. I know many contractors that use them with no issues. There are thousands of them in use all over Quebec and Ontario ( there you go Steve a plug for your Normands.) What I do know know from experience that we have done well with the Pronovosts. I started using the SHoule when they came out last year because I love the quality of their plows. Well the blower is as well built as their plows. I know Herm had an issue with the bolts on his spline shearing off, and the fix that SHoule came up with is awesome. I have not bought a Pronovost in the last 3 years so I have no idea if they have upgraded anything in their blowers, maybe I should Dominique a call and find out. I do know that the SHoule can blow huge amounts of snow, and the operators I have using them have yet to clog up the chute. Maybe Herm can chime in, if his operator who was new to this kind of operation ever blocked his chute. ( My guess would be yes since most guys do.) So there you go my two cents on what I know. Now I have to go out and finish hauling snow before the next dump of 4-6 inches tonight and tomorrow. :drinkup:

MogMan
03-09-2011, 07:44 AM
I did manage to clog up the chute once but it was my fault, I had the little door on the chute on and it was slushy snow and I dropped the rpm while hitting a 30" pile. Definetly my fault, not the pronovost

Herm Witte
03-09-2011, 09:20 AM
For your information we clogged the chute three times this season.

I have been very impressed with the Shoule and blowing snow vs. plowing (residential) snow. I have serviced residential drives personally for 40 years and have seen a lot of innovation in the snow plowing industry and blowers are awesome. About two weeks ago we had a 9" snowfall that was about a twelve hour plowing event for most all of our routes, all except the snow blower. In a 1 - 2" snowfall our inversed blower completes its' route in about five hours, it completed the route in the same amount of time (five hours) during that 9" snowfall.

There's my chime. :)

NicholasMWhite
03-09-2011, 09:48 AM
I have a question for those of you who have just one tractor/blower setup.

What kind of back up plan do you have in place? Do you have a spare tractor, or access to a tractor should your main one break? What if the blower breaks and it is something that can't be fixed for a few days?

Herm Witte
03-09-2011, 09:55 AM
I have a question for those of you who have just one tractor/blower setup.

What kind of back up plan do you have in place? Do you have a spare tractor, or access to a tractor should your main one break? What if the blower breaks and it is something that can't be fixed for a few days?

We operate one inversed blower on one residential route. Should the blower break we have trucks and other pieces of equipment to throw at that route. You might ask the same question of a one truck operation. :)

DaySpring Services
03-09-2011, 12:02 PM
Has anyone replaced the spline on their Shoule themselves? The dealer is getting me the part and wants to know know if I want to put it on. I dont know what is involved and if I can do it myself.

I've plugged my blower 2 this season. The first time I broke a shear pin, as result it plugged up the blower. The 2nd time I was clearing a lot with cars on both sides, Dragging the snow about 100 feet using the blower like a box. When I turned the pto on I didn't give it enough rpms to clear the blower out. The snow was extremely wet though. Both times I shoved a stick down rotated it around a couple times and was back in business within minutes.

OrganicsL&L
03-09-2011, 12:11 PM
How'd you break it?

DaySpring Services
03-09-2011, 01:45 PM
It didn't break on me, but others have had them break. There's an updated spline out with bolts that go right through. Some people were having problems with the bolts shearing off so Houle came out with an updated design.

Herm Witte
03-09-2011, 02:18 PM
Has anyone replaced the spline on their Shoule themselves? The dealer is getting me the part and wants to know know if I want to put it on. I dont know what is involved and if I can do it myself.

I've plugged my blower 2 this season. The first time I broke a shear pin, as result it plugged up the blower. The 2nd time I was clearing a lot with cars on both sides, Dragging the snow about 100 feet using the blower like a box. When I turned the pto on I didn't give it enough rpms to clear the blower out. The snow was extremely wet though. Both times I shoved a stick down rotated it around a couple times and was back in business within minutes.
It can be done, the auger needs to be unbolted and taken out of the way. The rest comes apart very easily. I had it apart a bit when my bolts were shearing. Just a suggestion - have the dealer replace the spline (it comes attached to a new blower impeller) if something goes wrong no questions are asked. If you replace it and something goes wrong there is always the possibility that you will be held accountable. for what it's worth. It is a warranty issue.

blowerman
03-09-2011, 03:29 PM
Since the question about snow blowing in wet snow comes up often, I thought I'd make a short video this morning. The rain in the forecast was actually 4+ inches of heavy wet snow.
I happen to be ahead of schedule so I stopped by a condo project and back dragged the snow into the street with the Deere 344J, we then blew it into the yards.
We also had no problems blowing driveways where the 4 inch snow had melted into a 1-2" gooey, sticky mess. Hope this helps!
RPM's were in the 1800-1900 range.
Speed of tractor could have been increased, but this was the last job today and we didn't want to risk breaking a shear bolt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC-3JaYQOqA

NicholasMWhite
03-09-2011, 03:40 PM
We operate one inversed blower on one residential route. Should the blower break we have trucks and other pieces of equipment to throw at that route. You might ask the same question of a one truck operation. :)

Yeah I plan to use my plow truck as a back up as well and was just curious. I know you could ask the same about the truck, but I find it easier to have a spare truck and plow since you can find a used set up for under $5K to use as a back up. Where a used tractor and blower(if you can even find a used blower) would run you a minimum of $15K or so. I was just wondering because I would like to get away from having a snow plow at all.

Neige
03-09-2011, 04:53 PM
In Quebec you can pick up used blowers around $2500 and up. They make for great spares, and sometimes for used parts also. Here are photos of the SHoule upgraded parts.

DaySpring Services
03-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Wow, Looks nice! I think I'll have the dealer install it since it's covered under warranty. No reason to be aggravated when can be for free!

StuveCorp
03-09-2011, 07:12 PM
What would you like to know about the Normand? I'm a dealer, and I'm aware there is not a lot of online media available for them. I'm working with them to get me more media including pics and video's so I can share with everyone. I am currently having a new website built that will showcase the different models of Normand Inverted Blowers, with pricing and option prices, I should have that up for everyone around the end of the month.

fyi, the pricing on a Normand through me for plowsite members is almost $2k cheaper then a comparable SHoule.

Anything. :) It seems Pronovost and SHoule are more popular on here but am curious to hear more on the Normand. That cheaper price doesn't hurt either...

IMAGE
03-11-2011, 11:52 AM
Thanks Paul for the kind words.

Blowerman, I'm out of town until sunday doing my National Guard commitment right now. I will make a few calls today and see what info I can get asap from them.

DaySpring Services
03-11-2011, 12:46 PM
I have to say I think the tractor/blower setup is really starting to take off. I see alot of interest on this site. My dealer has also had a few people call me about my setup. I think it's going to become a popular of snow removal. I have to thank Paul for giving me the idea after watching his videos. I think I jumped on the bandwagon early enough to be on the sucessful side for once, kinda like buying successful stocks when they're new!

NicholasMWhite
03-11-2011, 03:55 PM
I agree, I'm excited to offer a unique service, unlike plowing and mowing. I think it'll be nice to have an actual competitive advantage over all other contractors in the snow removal industry.

For those of you who started using an inverted blower, or any blower for that matter, to service residential customers this year:

Have you noticed a lot of interest coming from potential customers?
Have you signed anyone up mid-way through the season?
What type of marketing did you do?
Are you charging seasonally or "per push?"

MogMan
03-12-2011, 09:38 AM
Filmed this morning.

Not too relevant to this thread but at least, there's a TV145 in there.

There was another TV145 coming with a 2-stage Pronovost at the back to blow it all in dump trucks but I had other things to do than wait for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-oT7vDtxjI

Jelinek61
03-12-2011, 10:55 AM
Nice video. those wacker loaders don't really help to much in the video

MogMan
03-12-2011, 11:14 AM
Nice video. those wacker loaders don't really help to much in the video

They do look lightweight. They are there to push the snow off the sidewalk and onto the street.

Those Wacker are slower but more versatile than Bombardier's SW48.

IMAGE
03-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Hey guys, just finished up the new site, with online pricing for Normand Inverted Snowblowers. Plowsite members get a discount off advertised prices :drinkup:

Link: Normand Inverted Snow Blowers Online Prices (http://www.fargosnow.com/ForSale.aspx)



I'll be adding more Normand products to the site shortly. If your interested in any Normand products shoot me an PM or give me a call at 218-205-7198.
-Thanks, Steve

TKLAWN
03-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Thats pretty cool that they will match it to the color of the machine.

ProTouchGrounds
03-26-2011, 08:51 AM
I like the site image! more informative than the crazy canuck sites!

OrganicsL&L
03-26-2011, 12:34 PM
I agree, I'm excited to offer a unique service, unlike plowing and mowing. I think it'll be nice to have an actual competitive advantage over all other contractors in the snow removal industry.

For those of you who started using an inverted blower, or any blower for that matter, to service residential customers this year:

Have you noticed a lot of interest coming from potential customers?
Have you signed anyone up mid-way through the season?
What type of marketing did you do?
Are you charging seasonally or "per push?"

Anybody have any response the these questions....ones that I would love to know as well!

IMAGE
03-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I like the site image! more informative than the crazy canuck sites!

Thank You! wesport

Can I put your name on a blower yet?:drinkup:

EGLC
03-27-2011, 12:55 PM
:eek: MogMan...I hope those aren't your employees....that was one of the worst plowing techniques I've seen

StuveCorp
03-27-2011, 07:17 PM
I wish I could have tried out a tractor blower on the snow this week. It was soft ground with a couple inches of slush and then 8-10" of snow on top. It was horrible to plow off. If the blower can work in those conditions it would be awesome.

Triple L
03-27-2011, 07:52 PM
Filmed this morning.

Not too relevant to this thread but at least, there's a TV145 in there.

There was another TV145 coming with a 2-stage Pronovost at the back to blow it all in dump trucks but I had other things to do than wait for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-oT7vDtxjI

whats the deal with those wacker loaders? they're missing the actual loader? never seen that before?

IMAGE
03-27-2011, 11:35 PM
Doing a little youtube surfing I ran across this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfd11Q-Hr4) you guys might like. Its a Normand inverted blower moving some deep snow and going through all the functions.

sorry in advance for the music!

MogMan
03-27-2011, 11:45 PM
whats the deal with those wacker loaders? they're missing the actual loader? never seen that before?

Those "loader" are replacing Bombardier's SW48 around here as side-walk clearing rigs. Slower but more modern. I've seen some with nice 2-axles salter trailer too.

BTW, that vid is not of my outfit, it's Jean-Paul Trahan Inc. They have a huge fleet.

StuveCorp
03-28-2011, 12:22 AM
Doing a little youtube surfing I ran across this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfd11Q-Hr4) you guys might like. Its a Normand inverted blower moving some deep snow and going through all the functions.

sorry in advance for the music!

But the music made it beautiful. :D

You can really adjust where the snow goes. That had to be the biggest inverted blower?

IMAGE
03-28-2011, 12:46 AM
But the music made it beautiful. :D

You can really adjust where the snow goes. That had to be the biggest inverted blower?

Your are right it was the 102" wide Normand N102-310 INV since that tractor is 101" wide and has around 150+ hp. :drinkup:

IMAGE
03-28-2011, 12:49 AM
Those "loader" are replacing Bombardier's SW48 around here as side-walk clearing rigs. Slower but more modern. I've seen some with nice 2-axles salter trailer too.

BTW, that vid is not of my outfit, it's Jean-Paul Trahan Inc. They have a huge fleet.

Those WL-30's look to have great visiblity, but they must be 40-50k each for a sidewalk rig.

James D
04-10-2011, 05:39 PM
:eek: MogMan...I hope those aren't your employees....that was one of the worst plowing techniques I've seen

Re the video link; yeah, MogMan, if I had a TV145, I don't think I would put a blade on it, and let anyone drive it like that! It's a good, but expensive, tractor for a blower, but maybe not so good a machine for a blade.

What are the Wackers going to be when they growup? ... kidding!

James

MogMan
04-11-2011, 08:40 AM
Those WL-30's look to have great visiblity, but they must be 40-50k each for a sidewalk rig.

If they can be used for 40 years, like the SW-48s, it's a good investment !

Time will tell I guess

MogMan
04-11-2011, 08:55 AM
Re the video link; yeah, MogMan, if I had a TV145, I don't think I would put a blade on it, and let anyone drive it like that! It's a good, but expensive, tractor for a blower, but maybe not so good a machine for a blade.

What are the Wackers going to be when they growup? ... kidding!

James

Those rigs were not mine...

Those guys run a municipal contract worth a couple million $.

It was the end of a shift, I guess those Waker were trying to contribute.

That TV145 was a bit underweight to move a pile like this one.

James D
04-11-2011, 04:42 PM
Those rigs were not mine...

Those guys run a municipal contract worth a couple million $.

It was the end of a shift, I guess those Waker were trying to contribute.

That TV145 was a bit underweight to move a pile like this one.

Just kidding! They do work for the sidewalks.

My only concern about the TV is that that's pushing on a draughting hitch, maybe not a problem. They must have something more than the AG quick connect 3-point hitch? the TV's here are pushing blowers, and just doing that breaks the the lower arms on the stock AG style hitch, after a while.

MogMan
07-26-2011, 01:13 PM
I feel like I should post this for people looking to buy a Pronovost blower.

I found something that suks big time, their paint job or the paint that they used. It's parchemin paper thin.

Paint started peeling-off on parts of the blower that were not even touched by snow. It shows even on vertical parts, where water accumulation is not possible.

Their paint is sub-par. I was expecting more quality work for something worth 9K$.

Hopefully the SHoule are better made, because my next one won't be a Pronovost.

BTW, the white film in the pics is unbuffed wax, that I applied in april for protection.

leon
07-26-2011, 06:05 PM
Hello Mogman,

I would let both your Pronovost Dealer and Peter Pronovost know about this. As it is clearly a case of poor preparation or no preparation of the steel before after assembly and before painting.



The projections on the snow caster being the bolts and washers would have the least amount of paint as they are not flat and paint is thinned then sprayed rather than brushed on.

If you know someone who uses dry ice for sand blasting it would take little time to fix this and you will have a clean surface with no black beauty sand to worry about getting stuck in the washer space or around the bolt head.


I wonder if Paul Vanderzon is having the same issues with his pull behind blower fleet?

I would as Paul about this as well and see what his thoughs are as he is a Pronovost reseller too.


I would say that asking for some paint free of charge from Peter Pronovost to fix it is in order here.


I am surprized that they dont hand out some spray paint for touching up their snow casters is not done as it is a very high end product near Bielhack quality in my opinion.



Edit: Mog man, these bolts appear to be grade three bolts and the washer's may be the same grade as well which also points to galvanic corrosion of dissimular metals in your case too



Leon

MogMan
07-27-2011, 04:42 PM
Those cosmetic defects don't affect the performance of the plow but it suks to see this appear after only 4 months of usage/ownership.

Ill give them a call to see what I can get as compensation.

Maybe a new set of blade.

StuveCorp
08-28-2011, 10:55 PM
This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?

IMAGE
08-28-2011, 11:20 PM
This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?

Paul posted a vid of him blowing a pile. It was probally five feet tall, and he just backed right through it, with the blower up, and kinda "smeared off" the pile with the blower, then he just blew it away like nothing. I would think if you windrowed a nice line, you could run right down it and blow it no problem either.

MogMan
08-28-2011, 11:24 PM
This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?

You can definetly get rid of the snow row-crop style.

Diff height would be the limiting factor, since you would be driving through the snow pile.

StuveCorp
08-29-2011, 12:19 AM
Paul posted a vid of him blowing a pile. It was probally five feet tall, and he just backed right through it, with the blower up, and kinda "smeared off" the pile with the blower, then he just blew it away like nothing. I would think if you windrowed a nice line, you could run right down it and blow it no problem either.

You can definetly get rid of the snow row-crop style.

Diff height would be the limiting factor, since you would be driving through the snow pile.

I must have missed that video of Paul's. MogMan's term of row-crop is what I was kinda thinking of. The reason I'm thinking of this is I could save massive time(in theory) so the client can hit their budget and yet we get the work. At one site the loader or even tractor could push down and then go through and blow it away instead of handling the snow multiple times.

Does the blown snow ever hurt sodded areas? I would imagine if there is some salt residue there may be issues?

excav8ter
09-29-2011, 08:39 PM
OK everyone, I'm kinda excited right now..... just got done with our annual HOA meeting for our development .. We have 7 different associations under our "master" association. I lost the plowing last year to another local company who was cheaper, but did not have the equipment to deal with the challenging conditions in our development. Tonight, all of the representatives of the various HOA's asked if I would be willing to take on the plowing again. They have also, finally seen the value of blowing more than plowing. Here is what I have to plow in our development. There is about 2-3 miles of roads, 45 driveways and 2 parking lots covering 2 acres, as well as a turn around drive at the clubhouse which is about 500 feet around with 16 parking spaces.
I am wondering what size blower would be most efficient for me? I plan to plow the roads to about 2-3 feet from the edge and then blow the rest into the fields and front yards, and then blow all the driveways. I know a toolcat is not the BEST option, but it is one I am considering. Mainly because I can put a small salt spreader in it if i need to, as well as a back plow if i wanted to, plus I can use one in the summer as well. If i go the tractor/pto blower route what would be a good size? If i get approval, my budget would be about $25,000-$30,000.

Neige
09-30-2011, 06:54 AM
OK everyone, I'm kinda excited right now..... just got done with our annual HOA meeting for our development .. We have 7 different associations under our "master" association. I lost the plowing last year to another local company who was cheaper, but did not have the equipment to deal with the challenging conditions in our development. Tonight, all of the representatives of the various HOA's asked if I would be willing to take on the plowing again. They have also, finally seen the value of blowing more than plowing. Here is what I have to plow in our development. There is about 2-3 miles of roads, 45 driveways and 2 parking lots covering 2 acres, as well as a turn around drive at the clubhouse which is about 500 feet around with 16 parking spaces.
I am wondering what size blower would be most efficient for me? I plan to plow the roads to about 2-3 feet from the edge and then blow the rest into the fields and front yards, and then blow all the driveways. I know a toolcat is not the BEST option, but it is one I am considering. Mainly because I can put a small salt spreader in it if i need to, as well as a back plow if i wanted to, plus I can use one in the summer as well. If i go the tractor/pto blower route what would be a good size? If i get approval, my budget would be about $25,000-$30,000.

Thats great news you getting this one back. I would suggest you can even blow the roads, so all you will need is the tractor. The reason I say tractor is it will be much faster when blowing the roads. If you want to send me the address by pm or email I can check out the site on google earth and will be able to give you other pointers once I see the site.

Neige
09-30-2011, 07:09 AM
Those cosmetic defects don't affect the performance of the plow but it suks to see this appear after only 4 months of usage/ownership.

Ill give them a call to see what I can get as compensation.

Maybe a new set of blade.

Hey Mogman this has happen with to us with all the different brands out there. I think it happens because the nuts were not tight enough causing vibration and the paint to come off. Vibration might be the wrong word, its more like the metal bends back and forth because its not tight enough. You are absolutely right that it has no effect at all except for cosmetics. Every year we are touching up our blowers, its a pain but its just routine now.

This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?

Yes you can, but it becomes a much slower process and is much harder on the tractor. You try not to have it higher than the wheel base. If it is you start having problems with traction. The best scenario would be a bidirectional blower if you want to do lots of it.

I must have missed that video of Paul's. MogMan's term of row-crop is what I was kinda thinking of. The reason I'm thinking of this is I could save massive time(in theory) so the client can hit their budget and yet we get the work. At one site the loader or even tractor could push down and then go through and blow it away instead of handling the snow multiple times.

Here is the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc1uvXpKTvY

Does the blown snow ever hurt sodded areas? I would imagine if there is some salt residue there may be issues?

It can, but it seems because you are blowing the snow its getting spread over a larger area so when it melts maybe the salt becomes more diluted. It has never been an issue at my clients, but the again our muni puts down very little salt.

mnlefty
09-30-2011, 08:48 AM
OK everyone, I'm kinda excited right now..... just got done with our annual HOA meeting for our development .. We have 7 different associations under our "master" association. I lost the plowing last year to another local company who was cheaper, but did not have the equipment to deal with the challenging conditions in our development. Tonight, all of the representatives of the various HOA's asked if I would be willing to take on the plowing again. They have also, finally seen the value of blowing more than plowing. Here is what I have to plow in our development. There is about 2-3 miles of roads, 45 driveways and 2 parking lots covering 2 acres, as well as a turn around drive at the clubhouse which is about 500 feet around with 16 parking spaces.
I am wondering what size blower would be most efficient for me? I plan to plow the roads to about 2-3 feet from the edge and then blow the rest into the fields and front yards, and then blow all the driveways. I know a toolcat is not the BEST option, but it is one I am considering. Mainly because I can put a small salt spreader in it if i need to, as well as a back plow if i wanted to, plus I can use one in the summer as well. If i go the tractor/pto blower route what would be a good size? If i get approval, my budget would be about $25,000-$30,000.

I know you have to consider all factors, but in this situation I would steer you away from the Toolcat... and if that turns out to be the option Hi-flow is a MUST.

I used a std flow toolcat with a 72" blower last year for about 30 residentials... it worked out great for the most part, but the biggest drawback for me was the drastic difference in time between light snows and 5-6"+. My route was somewhat spread out, maybe 12-15 miles start to finish, probably about an hour of total "drive time". On light snows I could finish in 3.5-4 hours. In the heavy snows, once we got to 4-5" or plowing with the blizzard the 2 times we got 18", those 3.5-4 hr routes became almost a full 8 hours. The toolcat with standard blower just can't clear the deep stuff fast enough for me... the light snows I was mad because we could have handled double our route, but we would have been screwed on the deep stuff. I will be using a tractor and blower this year, and hopefully be able to keep our route times a little more consistent, as plowing with the storm we'll never see more than 6" on the ground at 1 time. I'm a little mad at myself for wasting a year on the toolcat and not going to the tractor/blower right away, but the toolcat was partly a $$ decision as I got a great deal on a winter lease last year.

In the situation you described, the toolcat I used last year would absolutely not work for you to blow the wind rows off the street... It would be painfully slow.

Take Neige up on his offer to help... he won't steer your wrong.

Herm Witte
09-30-2011, 09:22 AM
If you are looking for consistency in response time the inverted snowblower is the way to go. With a two inch snow our route was five hours long, nine inch snow - six hours. This is how we wish to grow our business.

MogMan
09-30-2011, 01:10 PM
I've been informed that a non-hydraulic rear blade for the Pronovost P920-IV exists.

Anybody out there ever seen one ? Pics somewhere

I was quoted 1300$ for the hydrau one and 1000$ for the "chain" one.

Probably gonna have to fab myself a fix blade

http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/images/p860ivd.jpg

excav8ter
09-30-2011, 07:24 PM
If you are looking for consistency in response time the inverted snowblower is the way to go. With a two inch snow our route was five hours long, nine inch snow - six hours. This is how we wish to grow our business.

Herm, what tractor/blower are you using? I hear you know Dave Timmerman @ Filmore equipment.

Herm Witte
09-30-2011, 08:07 PM
We are using a JD 5083 with the Shoule inverted blower. While I don't know Dave personally I have met him and am a client of Fillmore. Herm, what tractor/blower are you using? I hear you know Dave Timmerman @ Filmore equipment.

RLM
09-30-2011, 08:22 PM
Herm how does that set up work for you. We ordered 2 5101's with the SHoule inverteds for this year any tips would be appreciated

Herm Witte
09-30-2011, 08:30 PM
Herm how does that set up work for you. We ordered 2 5101's with the SHoule inverteds for this year any tips would be appreciated
Oops. I'm ebarrassed. We use our New Holland 4050 with the Shoule and it worked very well. The JD 5083 has the 8611 Blizzard with an ebling back blade. PM your phone number and I'll gladly give you a buzz and mention a few things.

mnlefty
10-27-2011, 10:53 AM
So after much debate, I've decided to run the Toolcat/blower combo again, mostly a financial decision coupled with the comfort of familiarity. I'll be going from about 30 drives last year to approx 45-50 this year. Assuming we don't get 86+" again this year (nearly double the historical average) it shouldn't be a problem.

While I shied away from spending the $$ on a different tractor/inverted blower setup this year, I am looking to spend a few $$ (<$2000) to add to the setup this year, but I keep oscillating back and forth between two options and I'd like to hear the opinions from others...

My biggest issue with the front-facing blower is blowing up to and pushing snow up to front facing garage doors, and a few tight corners with nowhere to blow snow that need to be drug/shoveled out to a serviceable area. Two ways to fix it...

1) A receiver mount back blade on the Toolcat.
Pros- plug and play, no design/fabrication needed. Good capacity.
Cons- most are wider than the 72" blower I use so they will likely drag on banks, my stakes, and will not allow me to blow quite as tight to retaining walls and such. Have to turn around in some tight spots, and adds overall length to a tight little machine.

2) Have somebody design/fab a pull back blade for the snowblower, a poor man's pxpl.
Pros- no turning around in the drive, better visability/control.
Cons- design/fabrication, potentially a little less capacity than a pull plow on the back, less added resale value compared to a plug and play back plow.

I know there's a member here, Dylan, who has done #2 to both a blower on a toolcat, and a rear facing pto blower, and I know Black Irish runs a couple Toolcat/Blowers with a back blade. Anyone care to chime in?

blowerman
10-27-2011, 03:47 PM
mnlfty, this is why toolcats don't work good for driveways... with a skid, we stop short of the garage and on our third pass turn in front of the door in a scooping motion and blow all the snow away. but even i stopped using skids and run larger tractors with blowers. (including the pxpl)

mnlefty
10-27-2011, 05:13 PM
mnlfty, this is why toolcats don't work good for driveways... with a skid, we stop short of the garage and on our third pass turn in front of the door in a scooping motion and blow all the snow away. but even i stopped using skids and run larger tractors with blowers. (including the pxpl)

Oh trust me, I'm well aware of the toolcat's limitations ;), but again, it makes financial sense for this year, and I'm comfortable with the machine. I do also like the visibility compared to a skid, and having the bed to carry shovels, salt, another small snowblower at times, and being able to have one of my shovelers jump in with me to run here or there at times. On a 3-car garage the 4-wheel steer actually allows me to do just as you mentioned, turn and make a swipe across the front. But there are a handful of 2-car and some that don't have an open side to blow towards on a garage swipe... and I'd love to eliminate that wasted motion all together.

On the other hand I also have a handful of side garages where I'm much better off blowing/pushing the snow to the backyard, rather than having to pull it to very limited space in the front if I were running an inverted...

I was out sizing up what it would take for the poor man's pxpl this afternoon, and I'm strongly leaning that way. If I had welding equipment and ability I'd probably already be started on it. When I plow my route in my mind, imagining the back drag functional, it really solves most of the tricky spots that have been bothering me. If I had the back drag the only thing more I could want out of my blower would be HP and width... Although I sensed a little fear and trepidation about the size of a tractor from a few customers I talked to about it this summer.

There is no one machine that is perfect for every drive out there... I'm just trying to get my machine a little closer to it, for the drives I do.

Triple L
10-27-2011, 06:53 PM
I have a 60" inverted blower FOR SALE
only 1 season old!
$3250 takes it

excav8ter
11-04-2011, 09:47 PM
Has anyone here ever used a John Deere 3720 with an inverted blower? I know its a smaller tractor, but for smaller sites and drives would it perform well?

MRHORSEPOWER1
11-04-2011, 11:12 PM
Has anyone here ever used a John Deere 3720 with an inverted blower? I know its a smaller tractor, but for smaller sites and drives would it perform well?

That would be Triple L... Check out his videos on Youtube.

excav8ter
11-05-2011, 05:23 AM
That would be Triple L... Check out his videos on Youtube.

Thank you. I searched Triple on YouTube and came up empty.

Triple L
11-05-2011, 07:01 AM
You should try searching again... I just did and 2 of my video's popped up, then you can click on my channel and see the rest.....

TatraFan
11-05-2011, 11:02 AM
How about the Unimog Solution???

You could have a truck with Blower driving at road speeds of 56mph between accounts???? With a blower or snow cutter up front and a sander in the back? It is just a thought.

OrganicsL&L
11-05-2011, 11:28 AM
The object is not to have to travel so far that you need to go 56mph between accounts!

TatraFan
11-05-2011, 12:33 PM
The object is not to have to travel so far that you need to go 56mph between accounts!

Isn't time saved between accounts money made for the corporation?

MogMan
11-05-2011, 01:57 PM
How about the Unimog Solution???

You could have a truck with Blower driving at road speeds of 56mph between accounts???? With a blower or snow cutter up front and a sander in the back? It is just a thought.

54mph is more like it.

MogMan
11-05-2011, 01:58 PM
The object is not to have to travel so far that you need to go 56mph between accounts!

I second that.

Route planning is key

TatraFan
11-05-2011, 02:46 PM
54mph is more like it.

The modern U500 truck does 56mph or 90Kph is what I was quoting.

MogMan
11-05-2011, 07:09 PM
The modern U500 truck does 56mph or 90Kph is what I was quoting.

My comment was obviously an attempt at humor, making fun of the top speed of my own truck. My unimog tops out at 54mph with or without the blower at the back.

TatraFan
11-05-2011, 09:34 PM
My comment was obviously an attempt at humor, making fun of the top speed of my own truck. My unimog tops out at 54mph with or without the blower at the back.

Yeah well the older ones are slower; that is unless you have the fast axles one them. See look at that plus -- you 54mph no matter your load... What type of Mog do you have it looks a 1000-1300model is it bigger?

OrganicsL&L
11-05-2011, 09:37 PM
Isn't time saved between accounts money made for the corporation?

Yes, but you'd be better off with your accounts close enough so you don't have to travel that fast to save time between accounts.

MogMan
11-05-2011, 09:47 PM
Yeah well the older ones are slower; that is unless you have the fast axles one them. See look at that plus -- you 54mph no matter your load... What type of Mog do you have it looks a 1000-1300model is it bigger?

u1600 with fast axles, speed-limited mechanically to match tire rating.

I wouldnt want to go faster with my mule anyway. Unladen, the rear is lighter than the front by a ton. Mine is an ag one, short wheel base. it's easy to loose the rear at speed.

ProTouchGrounds
11-06-2011, 04:27 PM
Hello guys, I want to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread and all the great advice and thoughts that have been shared. Its been a helpful way to wade through all the decisions that need to be made to push your business off in the right direction. Ive said it time and again, plowsite is a wonderful resource for our industry and I hope to contribute as much as I can on here as many like Neige, Blowerman, JDDave, Image and others have done.

As you can see in the picture thread we have received our tractor for this season and are awaiting our shoule blower to come in soon, thanks to Steve & Paul. You guys can see the pictures and info here:
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=127734

OrganicsL&L
11-26-2011, 01:51 PM
Hey Pro Touch....have you been out yet this year? Just wondering how the set up worked? How has the tractor held up so far

badgerfan
12-02-2011, 10:06 PM
I forgot who posted it, but you know the line: "faster with a blower"! How true....[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that this is already on a thread but since it seems like you know allot about these blowers I was wondering if it is possible to use them on residential driveways out in the suburbs. We are somewhat dense but not enough where I think we can legally drive a tractor to and from each driveway we service. The average account is about 1/4 mile apart from each other out in the subdivisions. We are presently using the standard pickup and plow set ups which work well for the sideturn driveways which are 60% of our customers which we can push straight through. But the other 40% are straight ones up to the garage which require back dragging and some circular drives.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated

NicholasMWhite
12-02-2011, 10:30 PM
I forgot who posted it, but you know the line: "faster with a blower"! How true....

I'm sure that this is already on a thread but since it seems like you know allot about these blowers I was wondering if it is possible to use them on residential driveways out in the suburbs. We are somewhat dense but not enough where I think we can legally drive a tractor to and from each driveway we service. The average account is about 1/4 mile apart from each other out in the subdivisions. We are presently using the standard pickup and plow set ups which work well for the sideturn driveways which are 60% of our customers which we can push straight through. But the other 40% are straight ones up to the garage which require back dragging and some circular drives.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated

In Wisconsin as long as you have a slow moving vehicle emblem (orange triangle) you can legal drive a tractor down any road except a freeway.

DGODGR
12-22-2011, 02:05 AM
Nobody has posted this question (even though this is post #500!) so maybe it's not really an issue. What about newspapers? I would think it is very likely that a newspaper could easily get sucked up in the blower. Is it likely to plug up a PTO driven blower mounted to a 100HP tractor?